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Old 30-03-2016, 06:12   #976
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by TheThunderbird View Post
If I could ignore multihull related posts, I'd do that.
You can. Please Do

Quote:
I didn't know what G-boat is
/Yes I noticed your opinions were unencumbered by fact or reality

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Anyone is free to enjoy the 18kn capability (Awa 80-110degrees only, I presume.....)
You presume wrong - very wrong
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Old 30-03-2016, 06:21   #977
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

[QUOTE=clockwork orange;2084723]
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Originally Posted by TheThunderbird View Post
Whatever.... G66 or G55... I question the quality of the make



Beiland, I do believe any monohull of the worst make would keep floating for years... but I agree with you, for a picnic boat to keep floating looks a surprise... :-)[/Q





There is very little similarity between the G55 and the preceding M&M designs which were a totally different concept and are nice wholesome cruising cats with a good record. The G55 is a lot more like a typical open bridgedeck cat with a hard dodger. I have to wonder if it had proper companionway hatches into the hulls as you would think that if it did and they were properly dogged shut the boat would have survived in better shape. I'm not a big fan of the 55 myself but as I said the M&M boats are a whole different deal.

I had the same concerns about the companionway hatches until I saw one at a boat show, they seemed well built and thought out. It's possible they left them open when they evacuated the boat?


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Old 30-03-2016, 06:23   #978
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pirate Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Having sailboat ghettos is not the way to diminish biased opinions but a way to increase them due to group mentality and group support.
Ghetto mentality increases the bias inside the ghetto regarding what they like and we can see for instance lots of unchallenged misinformation passing there as correct or undisputed, like cats don't sink, cats offer protection when .
Man that is one of the most Elitist posts I have ever read on here.. so just for you.. I'll play my song...
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Old 30-03-2016, 06:26   #979
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Seems to me there's Cat fanatics and self confessed Cat haters.. maybe its time the fanatics who find their sensitivities bruised started using the 'Selective Ignore Button' Thunderbird brags about..
If one stops rising to the bait with such obvious malevolence and vitriol maybe they'll get bored and go away.. kinda like fishing.. the trout aint rising.. find another eddy..
There's many ways to skin a Cat.. apart from a dis-masting.. as for Cat owners who'd care to disparage my Mono.. get in the queue behind me..
I do take your point Phil, but I am also reminded of Edmund Burke's many sensible statements:

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There is, however, a limit at which forbearance ceases to be a virtue.
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Toleration is good for all, or it is good for none.
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When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.
I will let you decide who are the good!
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Old 30-03-2016, 06:30   #980
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by TheThunderbird View Post
If I could ignore multihull related posts, I'd do that. Many issues simply do NOT apply to both cases.

I didn't know what G-boat is/was, and commented only based upon the horrible state of the defunct deck.

My comment would have been the SAME in case of a mono-hull wreck, were it the (unlikely) case of a deck similarly wiped out.....

I recall the criticism of old times sailors, regarding the large windows of deck saloon, the type of Holmen Pye designs and alike, since the mid-50s....approx.

I hold on the belief that a green-house deck/roof like that on G boats is unsafe and de facto prone to collapse under severe conditions. Or blow off. As it did, indeed!

All the rest is sectarian opinions.

Anyone is free to enjoy the 18kn capability (Awa 80-110degrees only, I presume.....) and put his life at danger. Please go

PS I love Trimarans, can I !? :-) possibly more than some multi-hulls " accolades"

What you don't seem to understand is the deck your talking about is actually a hardtop built over the cockpit. The hardtop ads no structural benefits to the boat and the boat is designed to be seaworthy whether the hardtop is attached or not. Think of it like you would a hardtop bimini over the cockpit of a monohull, better than canvas as you can walk on it and easier to mount solar panels to.


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Old 30-03-2016, 06:34   #981
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Companionway Hatches

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
....
I had the same concerns about the companionway hatches until I saw one at a boat show, they seemed well built and thought out. It's possible they left them open when they evacuated the boat?
First off I must admit to never having seen the G55 companionway hatches in person, so I can not really comment on their design.

Then I have to confess to what must be an old age problem with memory,...many older monohulls had sectional companionway hatch boards that could be inserted to partial block the companionway from storm seas,...what were they called??

Did the Gunboat 55 have something like this, and were they utilized?? ( I can not recall any reference to their use in the accident reports?)
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Old 30-03-2016, 06:36   #982
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Hardtop Cover, Gunboat 55

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What you don't seem to understand is the deck your talking about is actually a hardtop built over the cockpit. The hardtop ads no structural benefits to the boat and the boat is designed to be seaworthy whether the hardtop is attached or not. Think of it like you would a hardtop bimini over the cockpit of a monohull, better than canvas as you can walk on it and easier to mount solar panels to.
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Old 30-03-2016, 06:49   #983
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pirate Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
I do take your point Phil, but I am also reminded of Edmund Burke's many sensible statements:

I will let you decide who are the good!
Being an avid Readers Digest aficionado in my misguided youth I tend to believe.. "Laughter is the Best Medicine"
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Old 30-03-2016, 07:31   #984
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Name three

Three?! I would hope there isn't a single one! To be fair, I'm not posting the pictures but I do have more than three for cats as well as mono's, because they are basically ground up by reefs or rocks.

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Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
Well, every time my deck gets ripped off I blame dog haters. But my insurance company keeps telling me its because Peter Johnstone is a lousy businessman.

I tip my hat to you sir It gives me hope to find a cat owner with a sense of humor and the ability to write a great response

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Gee that's one of your more constructive posts.

So do you blame Gunboat owners when your keel falls off?


It's interesting how many "experts" on this forum appear to not know what part of a boat the deck is.


FYI, the deck on the boat in question is actually intact.

The parthere I started with "When cat owners file their insurance claims" was supposed to be the giveaway that it is a joke. Seriously, are insurance claims such frequent that the joke gets lost?
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Old 30-03-2016, 07:53   #985
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

As to sailboat ghettos. My opinion, that wasn't a reference to a poor underclass area, though that would be easy to assume.

It was a reference to the segregation of the forum. The meaning of the word has since ww2. Ghettos need not be forced, they can be chosen. Venice is one example, historically containing a ghetto of upper class merchants. Bronzeville in Chicago is another example, where the black profesional class live.

It's an architect/city planners understanding of the use of the word ghetto.

We have ghettos here, the mono ghetto, the multi ghetto, that are chosen to be so. And as Polux has said he doesn't think that is the best approach. And he said it again, as he does, but chose an unfortunate label to express the idea.

Again the problem with labels, and context, is especially problematic in conversation between different culture's citizens.
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Old 30-03-2016, 08:10   #986
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pirate Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

I'm just going on observations over time.. its not the first time I've used the 'Elite' expression and likely not the last..
Polux is not alone in this.. there are others from all hulls of life.. just often they're happier to give than receive... without construct.
Anyway.. enough.. I'm off.. back to my Bruce Ghetto..
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Old 30-03-2016, 09:18   #987
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Man that is one of the most Elitist posts I have ever read on here.. so just for you.. I'll play my song...
You can call me what you want, within limits, but what I said regarding closed group mentality is a sociological scientific reality and it is valid for a closed group of boats, being them full keelers or cats or a closed group of only white men, or a closed group of black man or any other closed group. They tend to have biased views regarding themselves (or the type of boats they own) and others (or the type of boats others own).

If calling me an elitist means that I belong to the smaller group that know something about sociology and about this, than I would take that as a praise.

"In sociology and social psychology, an ingroup is a social group to which a person psychologically identifies as being a member. By contrast, an outgroup is a social group with which an individual does not identify.....

The psychological categorization of people into ingroup and outgroup members is associated with a variety of phenomena....

Discrimination between ingroups and outgroups is a matter of favoritism towards an ingroup and the absence of equivalent favoritism towards an outgroup.

Outgroup derogation is the phenomenon in which an outgroup is perceived as being threatening to the members of an ingroup.This phenomenon often accompanies ingroup favoritism, as it requires one to have an affinity towards their ingroup. "


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingroups_and_outgroups

This put in a non scientific language simply says that if closed groups are constituted than there will be a biased view from a group to another and that one group will favor the opinions inside a group while tend to seeing as hostile and threatening opinions that come from outside the group, no matter how correct they are, with special relevance to negative comments. That's what they call favoritism.


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Old 30-03-2016, 09:29   #988
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pirate Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting


But.. did you like the song...??



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Old 30-03-2016, 09:48   #989
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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As to sailboat ghettos. My opinion, that wasn't a reference to a poor underclass area, though that would be easy to assume.

It was a reference to the segregation of the forum. The meaning of the word has since ww2. Ghettos need not be forced, they can be chosen. Venice is one example, historically containing a ghetto of upper class merchants. Bronzeville in Chicago is another example, where the black profesional class live.

It's an architect/city planners understanding of the use of the word ghetto.

We have ghettos here, the mono ghetto, the multi ghetto, that are chosen to be so. And as Polux has said he doesn't think that is the best approach. And he said it again, as he does, but chose an unfortunate label to express the idea.

Again the problem with labels, and context, is especially problematic in conversation between different culture's citizens.
Off course that was the meaning I was given to the word ghetto, as a social closed group with a particular residence, the sailing multihull forum (that I chose to call a ghetto) regarding the much more vast sailboat community that includes them too.

There are ghettos of very rich people, like for instance on some Caribbean places were the tourists and luxury hotel life is segregated from native population, sometimes by barbed wire or in what regards luxury condominiums all over the world.

The word ghetto was used long before WWII and is still refereed to a segregated group that lives among (but with separated residence) a bigger social group.

That seems the case here regarding sailing boats of many types with a particular type (multihulls) segregated from all other types.
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Old 30-03-2016, 09:56   #990
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pirate Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by four winds View Post
As to sailboat ghettos. My opinion, that wasn't a reference to a poor underclass area, though that would be easy to assume.

It was a reference to the segregation of the forum. The meaning of the word has since ww2. Ghettos need not be forced, they can be chosen. Venice is one example, historically containing a ghetto of upper class merchants. Bronzeville in Chicago is another example, where the black profesional class live.

It's an architect/city planners understanding of the use of the word ghetto.

We have ghettos here, the mono ghetto, the multi ghetto, that are chosen to be so. And as Polux has said he doesn't think that is the best approach. And he said it again, as he does, but chose an unfortunate label to express the idea.

Again the problem with labels, and context, is especially problematic in conversation between different culture's citizens.
Actually it was the area of the city of Venice where Jews were segregated to.. and not a chosen area.. the same as in Warsaw.
Basically a 'Superior Class' segregating considered inferiors to specific area's and imposing the label.. You can wrap it up in Gold and Silver foil.. but it is what it is..
Hence my term Elitist...
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