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Old 29-03-2016, 20:19   #946
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
The cockpit covering on that model of Gunboat is just that - a covering for the cockpit that is likely stronger than the typical canvass enclosure. I wouldn't expect either to survive the loss of the rig and un-manned exposure to the North Atlantic for more than a year, whether the boat was a monohull or multihull.

The fact that it remained upright and afloat in those circumstances is, I think, pretty good evidence of the quality of the engineering of the hull and deck, if not the rig.
Of course, Thunderbird, Polux and Robert Sailor all point out that all monohulls, regardless of the quality, could do this for years. But for a catamaran, which we all know is much more likely to sink, I still think it was pretty impressive.
Interesting take on things. To begin with I am actually liking some cats these days. Just because I suggested a mono buttoned up would be unlikely to have its deck ripped off I'm now a bad guy. What are some of you guys smoking? ? Over the years many monos have turned up in strange places after being abandoned by the owner. No different than the same thing happening with a cat although you do have to admit than when a boat has its entire deck ripped off that is something that I've never seen happen which is why I posted my remarks. And that my friends has nothing to do with likes or dislikes, it's just bloody rare.
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Old 29-03-2016, 20:20   #947
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Yes, I like many are interested in multihulls and monohulls and interested in discussing both.

Regarding all that crap about me posting biased and not fundamented statements about multihulls it should be easy to quote me on that but I guess that you would not be very lucky at that, fundamented differences of opinion aside. Why don't you try?
I've done it before, a number of times, but it makes absolutely no difference to you so it's completely pointless.
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Old 29-03-2016, 20:20   #948
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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It's envy that drives them to post here. Lack of envy is why we don't bother to reciprocate.
Something wrong with your logic: How can I and other have envy of something we hate? and you keep telling me that I hate cats even if I have told you many times that I like all types of sailboats, particularly the ones that sail well.
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Old 29-03-2016, 20:24   #949
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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It's envy that drives them to post here. Lack of envy is why we don't bother to reciprocate.
Hahaha .. quite possibly true.

It's getting on my nerves that we can't talk about multis without some mono person jumping in and making some disparaging, 'know-all' comment though.

Maybe I just need to go for a walk and grab a coffee - the office is a bit stuffy after all
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Old 29-03-2016, 22:18   #950
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Hahaha .. quite possibly true.

It's getting on my nerves that we can't talk about multis without some mono person jumping in and making some disparaging, 'know-all' comment though.

Maybe I just need to go for a walk and grab a coffee - the office is a bit stuffy after all
I read alot of the forum ( to much time) and yes there is some uneducated if not silly opinions voiced regarding multi hulls, but no more than many other topics! It's got to be asked why you (and others) react so passionately anytime there's any sort of multi hull discussion you don't agree with? I don't think people post out of envy, is it possible you over react? Some just stop being involved in threads because of the sensitivity of some. It's just a forum! Multi hulls are awesome, I'm sure more would have them if not for the money, the world isn't against you or your boat!
Respectfully.

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Old 29-03-2016, 22:23   #951
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

You know, reading this thread makes me wonder what cat owners do when they file their insurance claims for decks that are ripped off... blame the cat haters?!
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Old 29-03-2016, 22:24   #952
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

[QUOTE=TheThunderbird;2083976]Whatever.... G66 or G55... I question the quality of the make

Beiland, I do believe any monohull of the worst make would keep floating for years... but I agree with you, for a picnic boat to keep floating looks a surprise... :-)[/Q


There is very little similarity between the G55 and the preceding M&M designs which were a totally different concept and are nice wholesome cruising cats with a good record. The G55 is a lot more like a typical open bridgedeck cat with a hard dodger. I have to wonder if it had proper companionway hatches into the hulls as you would think that if it did and they were properly dogged shut the boat would have survived in better shape. I'm not a big fan of the 55 myself but as I said the M&M boats are a whole different deal.
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Old 29-03-2016, 22:45   #953
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by daletournier View Post
I read alot of the forum ( to much time) and yes there is some uneducated if not silly opinions voiced regarding multi hulls, but no more than many other topics! It's got to be asked why you (and others) react so passionately anytime there's any sort of multi hull discussion you don't agree with? I don't think people post out of envy, is it possible you over react? Some just stop being involved in threads because of the sensitivity of some. It's just a forum! Multi hulls are awesome, I'm sure more would have them if not for the money, the world isn't against you or your boat!
Respectfully.

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With respect I do believe it IS more than other topics; it's near constant. Especially lately. And from the same players, mostly. What you regard as the sensitivity of some is the reaction to this and it has built up over time and some of us have had a bit of a gutful of it. I wrote a long post a wee while ago on what appears to be an unconscious bias that is present in a lot of sailing circles and most definitely here.

Also, it's not about whether we agree or not, it's about the regular expression of bias against catamarans and tris and the smug attitude that often accompanies that. I feel you're falling into the trap of only noticing the symptom without looking at the root cause.
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Old 29-03-2016, 23:14   #954
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Part of the problem is the labels.... mono guy, multi guy.

Say something negative, anything negative, about a multi and get labelled a mono guy. And visa verse.

We're all sailors, and some power boaters, and some men, and some women. And then there's boatman. :-)

I've read many many times that all boats are a compromise. Seems to me a compromise suggests a negative characteristic exists. In every boat, compared to another.

Just be careful pointing it out, and where.

The new posts link and the recent discussions list combines the entire forum into a homogeneous space. I have never gone to a specific forum intentionally and prefer to read active threads. I like all boats and enjoy reading about them and their owners experiences. Always learn something.

There is a large difference between dislike and hate. Hate knows no reason.

Some here are very, very touchy about any negative comment about cats. It seems they focus too closely on a few words in the statements and strike against those without reading more carefully the full context of what is being said. Even to the point of suggesting the commenter only came there to bash cats. Not rational but emotional in my opinion.

I certainly wish the topics could be discussed more with more civility at times. Calmly, open mindedly, and in full context of the statements.
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Old 29-03-2016, 23:23   #955
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

PLEASE STOP THIS STUPID ARGUING AND GET BACK TO THE HONEST DISCUSSION OF BOATS !!
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Old 29-03-2016, 23:29   #956
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Part of the problem is the labels.... mono guy, multi guy.

Say something negative, anything negative, about a multi and get labelled a mono guy. And visa verse.

We're all sailors, and some power boaters, and some men, and some women. And then there's boatman. :-)

I've read many many times that all boats are a compromise. Seems to me a compromise suggests a negative characteristic exists. In every boat, compared to another.

Just be careful pointing it out, and where.

The new posts link and the recent discussions list combines the entire forum into a homogeneous space. I have never gone to a specific forum intentionally and prefer to read active threads. I like all boats and enjoy reading about them and their owners experiences. Always learn something.

There is a large difference between dislike and hate. Hate knows no reason.

Some here are very, very touchy about any negative comment about cats. It seems they focus too closely on a few words in the statements and strike against those without reading more carefully the full context of what is being said. Even to the point of suggesting the commenter only came there to bash cats. Not rational but emotional in my opinion.

I certainly wish the topics could be discussed more with more civility at times. Calmly, open mindedly, and in full context of the statements.
The problem with unconscious bias is that it's unconscious. People don't notice what doesn't affect them, generally. Especially when it's a wide bias and considered the 'norm' in a lot of places and sailing circles. They only notice the reaction because it seems out of place. And only when it's pointed out to them AND they're receptive to hearing it will it be noticed.

Regarding labels ... with respect I'd suggest that you haven't really spent a lot of time looking at the cause of these reactions. The same people regularly making disparaging comments, having their comments factually addressed yet continuing to make these comments is trolling and against the forum rules. Your description of the initial statements and how a multi person reacts is inaccurate at best and denigrating at worst. Further, labelling those who get sick of the multi bashing as emotional or sensitive only exacerbates the problem, however well meaning they might be.

This is like the white privileged male telling a woman there's no such thing as gender bias because they don't see it themselves...
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Old 29-03-2016, 23:30   #957
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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PLEASE STOP THIS STUPID ARGUING AND GET BACK TO THE HONEST DISCUSSION OF BOATS !!
Quite
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Old 29-03-2016, 23:32   #958
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Sorry, the deck was ripped off that cat? Looks like a cockpit cover with the deck intact to me. And Polux, you attacked me for criticizing the post where someone made the ridiculous suggestion that any monohull, no matter what the quality of build, would still be afloat, unattended, years after a dismasting. I assumed that meant you believed that to be a valid proposition. If you didn't, why did you choose to attack me rather than a post you disagreed with? So do you in fact agree that it was an obviously unsupportable, inflammatory post? If so, say so.

I don't dislike monohulls. Indeed, I pointed out that there are valid reasons to choose a monohull over a cat - but that wasn't one of them. Regardless, the monomaniacs have succeded in destroying another thread about a specific multihull by turning it into a generic mono versus multi thread. Bravo!

From recent threads we have been elucidated by monohullers telling us that cats motor nearly 100% of the time, that regardless of the build quality, no monohull will sink after a dismasting and that all cats are ugly. But I get your point - how dare anyone - even someone who likes monohulls, criticize such obviously helpful posts that are aimed at reforming multihull owners with obvious truisms!

Brad
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Old 29-03-2016, 23:32   #959
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

[QUOTE=clockwork orange;2084723]
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Whatever.... G66 or G55... I question the quality of the make

Beiland, I do believe any monohull of the worst make would keep floating for years... but I agree with you, for a picnic boat to keep floating looks a surprise... :-)[/Q


There is very little similarity between the G55 and the preceding M&M designs which were a totally different concept and are nice wholesome cruising cats with a good record. The G55 is a lot more like a typical open bridgedeck cat with a hard dodger. I have to wonder if it had proper companionway hatches into the hulls as you would think that if it did and they were properly dogged shut the boat would have survived in better shape. I'm not a big fan of the 55 myself but as I said the M&M boats are a whole different deal.
That's a good description of the G55 design style.

One party suggested they would like to have more of a barrier all around the rear of the cockpit area to keep big seas out. The problem with that idea is that same barrier would also keep a big sea in a potential 'pool' within the cockpit area. Better to let that area drain very quickly, while concurrently keeping those 'proper companionway hatches' into the hulls properly configured,...and that does not mean fully closed.
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Old 29-03-2016, 23:50   #960
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

tp12, I meant no disrespect in my comments. As far as bias goes, unconcious or not,..... well,.... .... could it be that it exists on both "sides" of this dialog?

I don't think anyone is trolling here. But I do think one's bias may make it appear so.

I don't dislike cats (inclusive), some I think I would enjoy owning and others not. Same for monos. I've only owned and enjoyed a Hobie18 that taught myself to sail on years ago. So I don't comment on the cats discussed, just want to learn more about them.
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