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Old 31-01-2015, 19:52   #76
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
I am disappointed to say the least.. That's the second Gunboat dismasted after Phaedo.. I can understand this latter as she was pushed beyond limits for record setting..But this one with professional crew, preassumably sailing moderately, how this could happen ???

Were they carrying too much sails, was the rigging not properly installed, miscalculation of something ??

In any case, for sure the weather was not benign, but shouldn't this kind of boat be OK in harsh conditions ? If the conditions were beyond the capability of the boat how, couldn't they avoid it ?? If there is no hole, no casulaties whatsoever, why they quited the boat ??

Very strange and in any case disappointing..

Cheers

Yeloya
They quitted the boat because the rich owner is basically a coward and unfit to be at sea in a boat like this.
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Old 31-01-2015, 19:57   #77
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Perhaps mfg should change name to "BUMBOAT"
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Old 31-01-2015, 20:59   #78
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by Barra View Post
I think some of the dismasting comments are missing the point here. A typical cruising cat rig is in effect designed to fail just prior to the wind loads that would result in a capsize . ie safety fuse like had the rigging not failed this boat may well have flipped all other things being equal so seems to me the rig did its job its just that they had too much sail up for the gusts/ relied on an electric gizmo to ease sheets automatically.

I agree with the other posts though that just the dismastimg seems insufficient to warrant the CG putting their lives at risk.
BS!! in another topic someone mention the same history, not true, most multi rigs are tough enough to lift a hull without break, as a rigger i can say in many production cats the side stays or uppers are strong enough to do the task,.... wear , cracks etc... is another history, so a fuse my ass...

The GB mast is made by Hall Spars, a reputable mast maker.....in carbón nothing wrong with that , 1 single spreader diamond , **** happen... whats next,,, blame the mast or the boat is pointless without further evidences...
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Old 31-01-2015, 21:54   #79
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by 2Hulls View Post
US or Aus $?
I'll let you choose!

Hey this is a great deal. After all those miles you must have flipped at least a million times, broken up thousands of times and been dismasted hundreds.

I know we flip our boat so often we don't even notice it happening. Just part of owning a cat, according to the experts here on CF!
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Old 31-01-2015, 21:58   #80
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by Barra View Post
I think some of the dismasting comments are missing the point here. A typical cruising cat rig is in effect designed to fail just prior to the wind loads that would result in a capsize . ie safety fuse like had the rigging not failed this boat may well have flipped all other things being equal so seems to me the rig did its job its just that they had too much sail up for the gusts/ relied on an electric gizmo to ease sheets automatically.

I agree with the other posts though that just the dismastimg seems insufficient to warrant the CG putting their lives at risk.
Just one of our shrouds is more than strong enough to take the entire weight of the boat. From what I've seen, this would be pretty normal.
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Old 31-01-2015, 22:33   #81
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Unhappy Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

I'll sail a gunboat. I've been looking at cats and I would love a gunboat. Load meters on rigging to keep tabs of load, someone didn't read it correctly? malfunction of something/anything that caused a chain of events causing the mast to fail? But one thing for sure.... The question of the boat being holed should not be that big a deal on a gunboat because if every compartment is flooded the gunboat WILL NOT SINK. to me if I'm 1000 miles away from anywhere my gunboat WILL always stay afloat so that gives me a secure feeling even with a life raft . I'll take that over a keel boat that like many keelboats rest on the bottom in every ocean with a hole in the bottom. I wonder why the engines couldn't get them home? I guess we will get the full low down in a week or so.
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Old 31-01-2015, 22:38   #82
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Most likely cause would be something like a split pin left off or not spread, or a rigging screw locknut left loose.. something simple that was overlooked during commissioning.
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Old 31-01-2015, 22:42   #83
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by georgetheleo View Post
They quitted the boat because the rich owner is basically a coward and unfit to be at sea in a boat like this.
Could have been a great opportunity for the crew to negotiate a payrise.
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Old 01-02-2015, 03:23   #84
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Just in case you wish to emulate this sail offHatteras mid winter. Lok at the upcoming weather

The evolution of a winter storm in a forecast computer model
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Old 01-02-2015, 06:04   #85
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by navy davy View Post
I'll sail a gunboat. I've been looking at cats and I would love a gunboat. Load meters on rigging to keep tabs of load, someone didn't read it correctly? malfunction of something/anything that caused a chain of events causing the mast to fail? But one thing for sure.... The question of the boat being holed should not be that big a deal on a gunboat because if every compartment is flooded the gunboat WILL NOT SINK. to me if I'm 1000 miles away from anywhere my gunboat WILL always stay afloat so that gives me a secure feeling even with a life raft . I'll take that over a keel boat that like many keelboats rest on the bottom in every ocean with a hole in the bottom. I wonder why the engines couldn't get them home? I guess we will get the full low down in a week or so.
Lines wrapped around the props, apparently... Although, one has to wonder how they managed to maneuver alongside that merchant ship, if that were the case ;-)

RAINMAKER ABANDONED: Gunboat 55 Hull No. 1 Dismasted, Crew Evacuated by Helo

I've gotta wonder, whether she might have been a bit more badly damaged then they're letting on...

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SAFETY

Speed = Storm Avoidance

The ultimate safety feature is pure speed. Sail around storms. If a storm is unavoidable, safety is derived from the ability to surf sideways. With daggerboards up, the round bottom hulls will skate sideways along waves, and the long high bows offer tremendous reserve buoyancy. We believe mega catamarans are the safest platform for surviving the worst weather.


Unsinkable

Six water-tight bulkheads, and a carbon reinforced underbody make flooding very unlikely. The composite laminate’s foam core acts as the ultimate reserve buoyancy. Even with the unthinkable, it remains unsinkable.
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Old 01-02-2015, 06:55   #86
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
... one has to wonder how they managed to maneuver alongside that merchant ship, if that were the case ;-) ...
They didn’t. ➥ RAINMAKER ABANDONED: Gunboat 55 Hull No. 1 Dismasted, Crew Evacuated by Helo

“... According to the Coast Guard's report ( Video Update: Coast Guard hoists 5 from damaged sailboat 200 miles off NC coast ), a 350-foot cargo vessel, Ocean Crescent, was 40 miles from the scene and diverted to pick up the crew, but was unable to come alongside the catamaran. According to Johnstone, Rainmaker collided violently with the ship and was almost sucked into its propeller...”
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Old 01-02-2015, 07:26   #87
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
I am disappointed to say the least.. That's the second Gunboat dismasted after Phaedo.. I can understand this latter as she was pushed beyond limits for record setting..But this one with professional crew, preassumably sailing moderately, how this could happen ???

Were they carrying too much sails, was the rigging not properly installed, miscalculation of something ??

In any case, for sure the weather was not benign, but shouldn't this kind of boat be OK in harsh conditions ? If the conditions were beyond the capability of the boat how, couldn't they avoid it ?? If there is no hole, no casulaties whatsoever, why they quited the boat ??

Very strange and in any case disappointing..

Cheers

Yeloya
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
This is how:
Posted Today, 08:38 AM
This morning's update: Sustained winds were 30-35 knots. Squalls had been in the 40 knot range for most of the day. A full whiteout squall hit that initially looked no different than the other squalls. Sails were up as there was no indication of squalls with winds above 40 knots. A wall of wind hit at up to 70 knots. There was no opportunity to get the sails down. The mast came down with the wall of wind. Am simply relieved these guys are all safe.

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=163512&p=4828448
Yup, sounds like the North Atlantic, 200 miles off Hatteras in late January, alright...
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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
And therein lies the weakness of the catamaran. It's inability to heel to the wind and relieve the strain on the rig....
Yeloya, are there more Gunboat dismastings then Phadeo and Rain Maker? It's interesting how many of the carbon foil Chris Whites have lost their rigs also.

I'm more disappointed with the crew then the boat in this instance. A professional cat crew should know that in 40 knot winds and squally conditions there is a chance that wind sheers can hit. This situation totally reminds me of the Chris White cat that flipped in the Pacific. It seems that owners/crew of these high performance cats feel invincible to the weather because of the machine they are commanding.

Hylite, I agree and think it's funny that my fellow cat owners are trying to defend a different position. There are a lot of positives to cats and a few HUGE negatives. The biggest is that squalls can easily overpower an un-prepared/over canvased rig. This has been discussed here for so many years it's hard to believe we are still debating it.

In the case of Rain Maker, with a boat that fast to have any more sail up then a triple reef and small hanky of jib in squalls in the North Atlantic in January is pure stupidity. How fast did they think they should go? In those conditions the boat should have been easily hitting 10 knots with small amounts of sail.

One last IMO - Forward located helm's are not a good idea. It causes, again IMO, the crew to stay inside protected from the weather instead of at the helm and sail controls.
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Old 01-02-2015, 08:04   #88
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by navy davy View Post
I'll sail a gunboat. I've been looking at cats and I would love a gunboat. Load meters on rigging to keep tabs of load, someone didn't read it correctly? malfunction of something/anything that caused a chain of events causing the mast to fail? But one thing for sure.... The question of the boat being holed should not be that big a deal on a gunboat because if every compartment is flooded the gunboat WILL NOT SINK. to me if I'm 1000 miles away from anywhere my gunboat WILL always stay afloat so that gives me a secure feeling even with a life raft . I'll take that over a keel boat that like many keelboats rest on the bottom in every ocean with a hole in the bottom. I wonder why the engines couldn't get them home? I guess we will get the full low down in a week or so.
OH Yes they felt so secure after the mast fell they abandoned boaty ony 200 miles out.
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Old 01-02-2015, 08:10   #89
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Interesting update from a video of the rescue. No mention of a 70 knot squall taking down the rig. According to the Coast Guard they had 40 knot winds and 13 foot seas when a wave came over the bow and caused the mast to split in half. That sounds pretty bizarre to me.
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Old 01-02-2015, 08:34   #90
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Both hulls look low to me from what you can see in the vid. There's lots of water almost continuously on the sugar scoops. If the rig was cut away then she should be riding pretty high. Maybe they were taking on too much water.
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