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Old 25-02-2015, 15:02   #706
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Far from be a good offshore design in some aspects, the whole electronic navigation package at the helm station exposed to the elements, ,, large salóon glass Windows , the Longeron is a isue without the rig, etc..





They get busted by the weather conditions with a expected forescast, WTF,,, no one in their right mind cast off with this kind of weather in this particular time of the year, try to cross Biscay in Winter with a dirty forescast and you can get a nasty kick in the ass or worst, Cape Hatteras in Winter or the gulf stream you should respect this área very carefully no matter how many Carbon fiber is lay on the hulls... 25 to 30 knts forescasted sounds a lot to me if you include squalls, seas, and the fact that in Winter things change really fast... from a previous fool who wait 20 days to make a decent Biscay croosing in Winter , but each in their own, i guess the skipper learn the lesson.....
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Old 25-02-2015, 15:14   #707
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Great to actually get them to say what they believe happened.

And what it indicates is:

A) a sail boat with a mast and sails and rigging is too dangerous for the open ocean. The mast can break and smash the boat and foul the engines/props.
No true blue water boat should have such failure prone and dangerous things aboard.

B) Boats with glass windows and hydraulic fluid are dangerous.

C) Electronic controls that fail when wet on a boat are dumbfoundingly stupid.
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Old 25-02-2015, 16:25   #708
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Far from be a good offshore design in some aspects, the whole electronic navigation package at the helm station exposed to the elements, ,, large salóon glass Windows , the Longeron is a isue without the rig, etc..





They get busted by the weather conditions with a expected forescast, WTF,,, no one in their right mind cast off with this kind of weather in this particular time of the year, try to cross Biscay in Winter with a dirty forescast and you can get a nasty kick in the ass or worst, Cape Hatteras in Winter or the gulf stream you should respect this área very carefully no matter how many Carbon fiber is lay on the hulls... 25 to 30 knts forescasted sounds a lot to me if you include squalls, seas, and the fact that in Winter things change really fast... from a previous fool who wait 20 days to make a decent Biscay croosing in Winter , but each in their own, i guess the skipper learn the lesson.....
How can you be so negative towards the Captain. He was a very experienced 28 year old.

Could it be that with youth come some risks that an older and wiser captain from the hard knocks of life doesn't have. Just a thought for what it's worth. Add to the mix of all the crew of the Gun Boat saying it is like a weapon etc. To much hype for my liking that could lead to a dangerous and risky way of thinking. Kind of like the guys on the Titanic who were full of the same unsinkable thinking. IMHO YES what we're they thinking.
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Old 25-02-2015, 16:38   #709
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Sorry, you assume I think someone is lying. I don't.
Ralph
Fair enough. But.....

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According to what Chris says, it was smooth sailing....until it wasn't. Kind of hard to believe really.

Ralph
Anyway, as I said it wasn't just directed at you. Plenty of people on this thread have talked about cover-ups, disinformation etc...
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Old 25-02-2015, 17:10   #710
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Fair enough. But.....



Anyway, as I said it wasn't just directed at you. Plenty of people on this thread have talked about cover-ups, disinformation etc...
Point taken. You're right. I'm just saying maybe the boat was taking more of a beating than Chris lets on? I guess he is talking wind waves here, but no mention of the south swells also working against them. Hey, I wasn't there, so just gotta believe the captain.

CB:In the morning, we knew the **** was coming, and we tucked in the third reef and set the little storm jib. We were felling a little underpowered sailing 7-10 knots, the wind built to an average of maybe 27-35 by noon, with waves to 14 feet.
SA:Hairy?
CB: Not really. We felt very controlled, checked the rig for any pumping action and then going through a rig check after the reef was tucked. All seemed cool, the mainsail clew locks were set in to help keep the belly contained and we let the autopilot sail 100-110 AWA.
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Old 25-02-2015, 17:26   #711
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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just curious, Eisberg... do you have any experience with multihulls, at all?
Not much... The typical farting around on Hobies when I was young, and about 10 days on a Lagoon 47 over in Croatia, that's about it...

Any particular reason for asking?
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Old 25-02-2015, 17:29   #712
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Any particular reason for asking?

as I said, just curious. thanks for reply
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Old 25-02-2015, 17:33   #713
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Maybe they simply don't know why the mast came down?
That seems to be the case... Clean posted in a follow-up to a question that no one who was aboard RAINMAKER has a clue :

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MR.CLEAN, on 25 Feb 2015 - 6:26 PM, said:

No one has any idea where the rig failure was. Zero.


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Maybe they need to recover the boat to find out?
Highly unlikely that's ever gonna happen :-) Even if the boat does turn up somewhere, it wouldn't reveal much, with the failure of any components at the deck level already having been ruled out, and the rig lying on the bottom of the North Atlantic 200 miles SE of Hatteras...
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Old 25-02-2015, 17:38   #714
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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The typical farting around on Hobies when I was young
They had Hobies back then?

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Old 25-02-2015, 17:46   #715
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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They had Hobies back then?

Mark
Haha....Jon in 1958!

Click image for larger version

Name:	<a title=hobie cat.jpg Views: 169 Size: 229.8 KB ID: 97922" style="margin: 2px" />

My first sail was on a Prindle. I soon developed an envy for the Nacra's.

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Old 25-02-2015, 17:54   #716
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Well, we already have heard from Johnstone that all the shroud attachments at the deck level were intact after the rig came down...

So, I can't imagine how a mast like that jumps off the mast step without first breaking, and allowing the standing rigging to go slack...

Moreover, I don't know how "the mast hits the deck at the midship cleat", with the while the base of the mast is still in the step. I've heard of "Wet Noodle Rigs" before, but that's taking it to a whole new level :-) Seems to me he's referring to the broken upper portion of the rig that comes crashing down, no?
I confess that all this seems more confusing. There are several information that are relevant when a mast broke and one of them is the place where it broke but I find odd that piece of information not to be available...or did they mean that the mast did not broke and just fell down...with all the attachments at deck level intact?
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Old 25-02-2015, 18:01   #717
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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They had Hobies back then?

Mark
LOL! Hey, I was one of the early adopters :-)

I used to race on a Lightning on Barnegat Bay with a guy named George Francis, who opened a shop called Surf Sailing and became the dealer for Hobie in this part of the Jersey shore... Great guy, made a very smart move, he became quite successful...

But, you know me, I'm a dyed-in-the-wool monohull guy... I bought this Contender from George, instead... Pretty sure my record of capsizes on Barnegat Bay will NEVER be touched, the main even developed a stain at the head after being stuck in the mud so many times...

:-)


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Old 25-02-2015, 18:03   #718
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Unhappy Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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The Gunboats are some of the lightest boats out there. They have foam core and many of the interior components are honeycomb core. It also has 6 water tight bulkheads so sinking it is not gonna happen. Blowing it out of the water will just leave many large floating pieces instead of just the one.

The coasties are always training for a mission if not doing one. The pilots need their hours and everyone else has to be ready for any task that arises. The expenditures are the same. It is no difference rescuing a billionaire than rescuing you or me.

To recap: They were in a boat with no rig and no propulsion. Conditions were forecast to get worse. The owners son was on board. What would you do?
What on earth were they out there for? Good boat or not why? I personally met a couple who nearly sank try to cut a rig off a big Mono. Saw the boat myself, damn thing was custom built alu and built like a sub. It was trashed, mashed and bent. it's not nice to mess with Mother Nature.
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Old 26-02-2015, 18:49   #719
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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What on earth were they out there for? Good boat or not why? I personally met a couple who nearly sank try to cut a rig off a big Mono. Saw the boat myself, damn thing was custom built alu and built like a sub. It was trashed, mashed and bent. it's not nice to mess with Mother Nature.
. Looks like some of the crew believed the hype hook, line and sinker.
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Old 27-02-2015, 03:08   #720
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

"Two of the crew were potentially in shock".
I wonder which two?

The young skipper and his crew did an excellent job.

Big windows = Big problems
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