Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-02-2015, 02:28   #526
Eternal Member

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 848
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by tp12 View Post
It's not evasion of obfuscation to point out that the facts aren't known yet and that everyone here speculating are doing just that, speculating. Some with much glee and hope that the marketing is wrong - why is that?


So, at this stage only maybe ten people from lawyers, insurance companies, skippers and crew actually know what happened. Until they provide more details you're only speculating that the Gunboat can't meet it's stated claims. But that doesn't seem to stop you, and others, from getting stuck into them. With relish.
Uhhh, some are "hoping" the marketing is wrong, or "speculating" this boat didn't meet the stated claims???

Perhaps I'm misinformed, but RAINMAKER actually WAS abandoned off Hatteras a few weeks ago, no? After failing to "sail around a storm", and despite being "the safest platform for surviving the worst weather", and being "unsinkable", even in the event "the unthinkable" should occur?

Quote:
SAFETY

Speed = Storm Avoidance

The ultimate safety feature is pure speed. Sail around storms. If a storm is unavoidable, safety is derived from the ability to surf sideways. With daggerboards up, the round bottom hulls will skate sideways along waves, and the long high bows offer tremendous reserve buoyancy. We believe mega catamarans are the safest platform for surviving the worst weather.


Unsinkable

Six water-tight bulkheads, and a carbon reinforced underbody make flooding very unlikely. The composite laminate’s foam core acts as the ultimate reserve buoyancy. Even with the unthinkable, it remains unsinkable.
__________________

__________________
Jon Eisberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2015, 02:37   #527
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Sydney
Boat: Wanted: Schionning Arrow 1360'ish
Posts: 589
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
Uhhh, some are "hoping" the marketing is wrong, or "speculating" this boat didn't meet the stated claims???

Perhaps I'm misinformed, but RAINMAKER actually WAS abandoned off Hatteras a few weeks ago, no? After failing to "sail around a storm", and despite being "the safest platform for surviving the worst weather", and being "unsinkable", even in the event "the unthinkable" should occur?
Yes, you are hoping and you are speculating. How do you know they tried to sail around it; aren't you making an assumption about their intentions? Yes, you are. Just because a boat is capable of something doesn't mean that the person behind the wheel is making that decision. Or because your decision would be different. We all have different risk profiles, experience and perspective.

And again, you don't know what happened so you don't know whether they would have survived on board if they stayed or not. Or who made the decision or why the decision was made to abandon the boat. Further, you don't know whether the boat sank or not.

All my points stand and I'd urge you to take a step back and have a think. What is assumption, what is fact, and why are you so quick to jump to these conclusions? Do you know what confirmation bias is?

Honestly, I'd expect all this stuff over on sailing anarchy but not here.


One last point - if these aren't assumptions that you've made, please post your facts.
__________________

__________________
tp12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2015, 02:42   #528
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 62
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

but we do know they went slow, then abandoned.

i'll repeat a question: do you think the layout and superstructure looked safe to be swept by breaking waves? does anybody? if so, explain.
__________________
SailingMum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2015, 02:47   #529
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Sydney
Boat: Wanted: Schionning Arrow 1360'ish
Posts: 589
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailingMum View Post
but we do know they went slow, then abandoned.

i'll repeat a question: do you think the layout and superstructure looked safe to be swept by breaking waves? does anybody? if so, explain.
No, you don't know that. You assume that because their time looks slow they went slow - how do you know they didn't stop for any reason? Or take an indirect route?

The design looks susceptible to being pooped to me but I would make the point that I don't know that the designer hasn't accounted for this in some way. As I understand it, Irens knows his onions so it would most definitely not be my first assumption to think that he's dropped a bollock on this one. I'd probably ask Peter from GB what the plan was for that scenario and hear him out.
__________________
tp12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2015, 02:50   #530
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Sydney
Boat: Wanted: Schionning Arrow 1360'ish
Posts: 589
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

But hey, I wouldn't want facts to get in the way of a good old group think led, assumption based, pitch fork waving internetz lynching!

YEEHAW!
__________________
tp12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2015, 02:52   #531
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 506
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailingMum View Post
i'll repeat a question: do you think the layout and superstructure looked safe to be swept by breaking waves? .
Do they carry "storm boards/ shutters" for all that glass?
__________________
Seaslug Caravan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2015, 02:53   #532
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Sydney
Boat: Wanted: Schionning Arrow 1360'ish
Posts: 589
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

I've always liked this quote:

__________________
tp12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2015, 02:55   #533
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 62
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by tp12 View Post
No, you don't know that. You assume that because their time looks slow they went slow - how do you know they didn't stop for any reason? Or take an indirect route?

The design looks susceptible to being pooped to me but I would make the point that I don't know that the designer hasn't accounted for this in some way. As I understand it, Irens knows his onions so it would most definitely not be my first assumption to think that he's dropped a bollock on this one. I'd probably ask Peter from GB what the plan was for that scenario and hear him out.
Do a search - he's been asked. The speed thing has been asked too. The problem is the people who know refuse to answer. I guess they're holding back because the answer makes them look too good.
__________________
SailingMum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2015, 03:02   #534
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Sydney
Boat: Wanted: Schionning Arrow 1360'ish
Posts: 589
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailingMum View Post
Do a search - he's been asked. The speed thing has been asked too. The problem is the people who know refuse to answer. I guess they're holding back because the answer makes them look too good.
I've read the thread on here and on SA, I don't need to go searching for anything thanks.

There was a very well thought out post in this thread earlier which very reasonably explains the process they are likely going through with insurers and lawyers. Yet people keep posting as if they're entitled to an explanation when, quite frankly, they're not. These things take time to process and the public at large posting wild assumptions are not really a consideration. It's very unlikely to damage his real, narrow market.

I think that any real, potential GB customer, who had concerns about the design would either be posing those concerns to Peter on the phone, or in person. Not looking to cruisersforum for the answers. Peter has stated on SA that he's willing to talk to anyone with those concerns. If you're a legitimate potential customer you should pick up the phone and ring the guy.
__________________
tp12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2015, 03:15   #535
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 62
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

you're right that there's no enitlement to an answer.

but there's no principle of insurance or law that says it's unsafe to respond here but safe to respond to potential purchasers directly. that distinction is one driven by PR not by law.

and i guess maybe you're right about the true purchasers: they're the cream of the crop intellectually. when they want advice on product quality, they'll take it only from the salesman and ignore the rest. google is for the guys who build plywood boats.
__________________
SailingMum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2015, 03:20   #536
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Sydney
Boat: Wanted: Schionning Arrow 1360'ish
Posts: 589
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailingMum View Post
you're right that there's no enitlement to an answer.

but there's no principle of insurance or law that says it's unsafe to respond here but safe to respond to potential purchasers directly. that distinction is one driven by PR not by law.

and i guess maybe you're right about the true purchasers: they're the cream of the crop intellectually. when they want advice on product quality, they'll take it only from the salesman and ignore the rest. google is for the guys who build plywood boats.
I think you may be ignoring what is in the insurance contracts. I think it very likely that there are clauses limiting or preventing the public disclosure of facts until a claim is resolved and if I was dealing with a $2.5m claim and a lawyer told me to lay off the keyboard, I'd be laying off the keyboard.

I know my car insurance prevents me from admitting liability at the side of the road. I could be blatantly in the wrong but I'm still bound by contract law to not say so.
__________________
tp12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2015, 03:21   #537
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Sydney
Boat: Wanted: Schionning Arrow 1360'ish
Posts: 589
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Anyway, thanks for being reasonable
__________________
tp12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2015, 04:14   #538
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Mallorca
Boat: Dragon
Posts: 82
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

An interesting question that arises from all this that of the professional dynamics between skipper and owner. Ultimately, only the skipper can make the decision to put to sea. I wonder if any pressure was put on him to go due to time constraints...imo any pro would have been reluctant to depart and would have voiced those concerns...
__________________
Duct Tape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2015, 04:33   #539
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Sydney
Boat: Wanted: Schionning Arrow 1360'ish
Posts: 589
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duct Tape View Post
An interesting question that arises from all this that of the professional dynamics between skipper and owner. Ultimately, only the skipper can make the decision to put to sea. I wonder if any pressure was put on him to go due to time constraints...imo any pro would have been reluctant to depart and would have voiced those concerns...
There's a lot at play in a dynamic like that, many shades of grey, and very difficult for us to know. A lot of very individual character traits come into play.

You may be right and I hope we get to understand more what actually happened in the near future. I'm dying to know what really happened
__________________
tp12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-02-2015, 05:51   #540
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

[QUOTE=SailingMum;1751095]but we do know they went slow, then abandoned.



i'll repeat a question: do you think the layout and superstructure looked safe to be swept by breaking waves? does anybody? if so, explain.[/

What would happen if the superstructure was ripped of the boat? My guess is the boat was designed as an open bridge deck and any water that made its way into the bridge deck area would quickly exit by the way of the stern. I would worry about the electronics as it seems this is what controls the boat.
__________________

__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
crew, dismasting, mast, rescue

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dismasting on the Hudson hycslim Monohull Sailboats 12 26-02-2012 07:22
Challenge: Dismasting Situation mauiboy86 Challenges 25 18-09-2011 04:02
Slight Dismasting witchcraft The Sailor's Confessional 8 07-10-2008 09:17
Broaching and Rolling with Dismasting maxingout General Sailing Forum 32 18-04-2007 13:41
Chain plate failure, dismasting in the Southern Ocean GrayGoose Construction, Maintenance & Refit 1 27-03-2005 08:19



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:07.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.