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Old 16-02-2015, 20:14   #511
smj
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by Mirar View Post
Hi all, Jim, you are not going to win this one, haha! Think school of thought. I have never sailed a multi but my last career move as driving freighters around was skippering a 350 ton landing craft on the B.C. coast, thinking that would be ideal, paid to cruise as it worked out. Similar to a big cat, think wide and flat bottomed.
That boat was 37 feet wide and about 150 feet long. Put it beam to the Hecate Straits, even with 2-300 tons of freight aboard, she would snap roll us right out of the galley seating. It must have been nasty for the G55 crew trying to deal with a tipped over stick and no engine power.
I noticed on Rainmakers video that going into a tiny chop passing the S. of Liberty, that skinny little bow was dancing up and down like a toy. I would think that Nick's Sundeer would hardly move. I think a bit of weight is a good thing in certain conditions.
I am not sure what my point is, but I think that even if a vessel is never intended to be used for certain conditions ie. offshore, there is still the re-positioning aspect to get her from one playground to another. A lot can happen out there in a brief voyage. This logic is after 45 or so years on the water, mostly commercial for maybe a million or so miles, then 70-80- for pleasure, who cares.
Incidentally, the freight boat was about the same price as the Gunboat, a super tough ship, not a toy. I look at something like the G55 and I am shocked about what you get for what you pay, think Ikea furniture. The boat I am currently building and nearly finished is a 55' alloy expedition vessel, 3/8" aluminum plate. Everything is custom built, super tough, looks great, good pilot house like the Kanters with all the toys and less than 300 grand including a good rig. check out www.expeditionsail.com for a similar type. This of course doesn't take into account the 7 years I have been working on it, heheh All worthless retired time.
I also would say, I would love to sail on a G55 and looks like it would be a great live aboard in the tropics.
Hope that I draw some of the flak my way, Jim!

Two points. The Gunboat is not a flat bottomed landing craft. And Nicks Sundeer in an anchorage with a beam sea will roll its guts out.
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Old 16-02-2015, 20:17   #512
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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I don't understand this or do you mean that it is a worthy design for a show-off boat to impress customers and neighbors? Because it isn't a worthy blue water design before a whole bunch of them have proven themselves for years. These fall apart so it failed the test.

From what I've seen and read, the GB55 is just a toy and an expensive one at that. No prudent sailor is going to select this design for wandering around the worlds oceans for the rest of their lives, that's for sure.

I agree with your way of saying it, too, I just don't think that it's a toy... its a sailboat whose primary purpose is not sailing around the world; its more of a coastal cruiser design. Lots of those in marinas, at anchorages, on coastal waters. May even safely cross oceans, but the route planning has got to be different than for true blue water designs. Not every boat has to be Category A, or whatever the standard is for multihulls, because not every boat owner has that as the primary goal. This boat IMO is more optimized for trade winds sailing, Caribbean living, coastal hops and marina-based sailing. It shouldn't be marketed with the same boilerplate as her bigger sisters, because that doesn't really fit the design brief. These folks got into trouble by doing the same routing for this boat as they would for any "GUNBOAT" and found the error in their assumptions the hard way.
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Old 16-02-2015, 21:39   #513
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

phillysailor, I think you pegged it, as many have. Go with what you like and spend as much as you like. If you have kazillions then it is a problem to spend it all. If I had that much loot then I would be pxxxed off if I couldn't get enough quality for what I paid for. I just think that the owner of Rainmaker did not get what he paid for.
Sure, not everyone can build a boat like I have ( the second good cruiser) but you should be able to put your money down and get something that won't fall apart at the first sign of trouble.
Greg
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Old 16-02-2015, 22:24   #514
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by phillysailor View Post
I agree with your way of saying it, too, I just don't think that it's a toy... its a sailboat whose primary purpose is not sailing around the world; its more of a coastal cruiser design. Lots of those in marinas, at anchorages, on coastal waters. May even safely cross oceans, but the route planning has got to be different than for true blue water designs. Not every boat has to be Category A, or whatever the standard is for multihulls, because not every boat owner has that as the primary goal. This boat IMO is more optimized for trade winds sailing, Caribbean living, coastal hops and marina-based sailing. It shouldn't be marketed with the same boilerplate as her bigger sisters, because that doesn't really fit the design brief. These folks got into trouble by doing the same routing for this boat as they would for any "GUNBOAT" and found the error in their assumptions the hard way.
Exactly...

To me, it speaks volumes, the words the Young Guns hired to drive these boats for their owner choose to describe RAINMAKER...

Skipper Chris Bailet:

Quote:
"I love the boats and the family, especially the 55, that thing is like a guided missile.

Gunboat 55 Tocatta Delivery - Story by Jen Edney | Sailing Anarchy
and Bailet's colleague Pyrat:

Quote:
The greatest reservation I had about the 55' was her sailing properties. This boat is an absolute freaking weapon. Very powerful, very fast, and scarier than fast, very quick to accelerate. While close-reaching down the Chesapeake with the screecher, she would jump from 10 knots to 18 in a couple of seconds...

PLEASE SAY A PRAYER FOR RAINMAKER'S CREW - Page 4 - Multihull Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums
a "guided missle", or a "weapon", huh?

"DISRUPTIVE technology", indeed... "You've got AUTHORITY on the water...", according to owner Brian Cohen...

Well, at least until you get 200 miles SE of Hatteras in January, anyway...

;-)
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Old 16-02-2015, 22:28   #515
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

I used to think Aussies were bad for tall poppy syndrome. Seems it's not just confined to Aus
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Old 16-02-2015, 23:36   #516
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

So what can be said about all of this, people want to sail off on the ocean on expensive pieces of furniture, thinking that we paid the money then all is good, Again, I relate it to Ikea, how many times can you move it before it just falls apart. I remember looking at a fellows Lagoon 440 in Zihaut years ago when he asked me to look at his "teak bridge deck" It was a thin veneer ply that just exploded in the outside world. He became slightly irate when I compared it to trying to keep your piano outside in the rain. It was only there to sell the boat, then , see you later buddy.
In a way, I see that here with the G55. nothing really of substance, just glitter. Whoa, I am in trouble now.
Greg
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Old 16-02-2015, 23:44   #517
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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I used to think Aussies were bad for tall poppy syndrome. Seems it's not just confined to Aus
You're exactly right. It seems the main problem people have with this incident is that it happened to an expensive boat. If it was an "entry level" boat, most people wouldn't really give a rat's arse.
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Old 16-02-2015, 23:50   #518
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Hi Smj,, Being for all purposes a rigid platform, the G55 would have most of the characteristics of a landing craft. On a beam sea it would display the same roll patterns I am sure. What else is it going to do? As far as I know, the designers haven't yet introduced an articulating center point.
Regarding Nick's Sundeer, it would have a nice lazy roll I am sure, but if it was getting a bit much, he would toss out a stern anchor as needed.
At the end of the day, I just want to have a design I can count on besides my own shortcomings. On the ocean there is enough to deal with besides worrying if you have a crappy boat. Nothing wrong with time tested ideas , not the latest piece of ordinance. The owner and his crew should have just kept their yip's closed until they at least had a few miles under their belts.
Greg
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Old 16-02-2015, 23:58   #519
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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You're exactly right. It seems the main problem people have with this incident is that it happened to an expensive boat. If it was an "entry level" boat, most people wouldn't really give a rat's arse.
I'm certainly not seeing the same types of posts in the Condor trimaran thread....
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Old 17-02-2015, 00:00   #520
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by Mirar View Post
Hi Smj,, Being for all purposes a rigid platform, the G55 would have most of the characteristics of a landing craft. On a beam sea it would display the same roll patterns I am sure. What else is it going to do? As far as I know, the designers haven't yet introduced an articulating center point.
Regarding Nick's Sundeer, it would have a nice lazy roll I am sure, but if it was getting a bit much, he would toss out a stern anchor as needed.
At the end of the day, I just want to have a design I can count on besides my own shortcomings. On the ocean there is enough to deal with besides worrying if you have a crappy boat. Nothing wrong with time tested ideas , not the latest piece of ordinance. The owner and his crew should have just kept their yip's closed until they at least had a few miles under their belts.
Greg
No. You would need some time on a sailing cat but definitely not similar to a landing craft or barge. Watch a few videos of cats in a seaway.
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Old 17-02-2015, 00:17   #521
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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I'm certainly not seeing the same types of posts in the Condor trimaran thread....
That's because the rescue picture showed it still had the mast and was sitting proudly in the water, not wallowing.

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Old 17-02-2015, 00:28   #522
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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That's because the rescue picture showed it still had the mast and was sitting proudly in the water, not wallowing.

Ann
I don't agree. If anything, that should have drawn more ire.

I'm surprised there weren't comments like:

Why did they abandon it, it's perfectly fine...

Or Why didn't they burn it

etc etc

I think it might have a little more to do with the fact that it wasn't a $2.5M boat with a VC on it.
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Old 17-02-2015, 01:00   #523
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

[QUOTE=44'cruisingcat;1751035]You're exactly right. It seems the main problem people have with this incident is that it happened to an expensive boat. If it was an "entry level" boat, most people wouldn't really give a rat's arse.[/QUOTE

No. The problem people have is with the misdesription of the nature and capability of the boat. The thread drags on because some people drank the carbon Kool Aid and keep keep denying or avoiding the obvious.

Sort of like when I invited your views on the structural integrity of the design in breaking seas and instead of responding you just keep attacking straw men (hating on cats, straw men, whatever).

Fwiw, I'm not for a moment saying some other boat is perfect. For example, I could probably put forward some pretty negative views, for example, about the dashew boats, including aspects of how their marketing oversold aspects. But that's not a currently relevant topic, is it.

That it happened to such an expensive boat probably attracts spectators. I guess it adds colour because of a different type of sucker and because there's a certain schadenfreude about it all given the elitist and over-egged promotion of the boats to date.

For me though, it's only the evasion and oobfuscation of posts like yours that prompts me to comment again. It's kind of funny.
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Old 17-02-2015, 01:49   #524
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

It's not evasion of obfuscation to point out that the facts aren't known yet and that everyone here speculating are doing just that, speculating. Some with much glee and hope that the marketing is wrong - why is that?


So, at this stage only maybe ten people from lawyers, insurance companies, skippers and crew actually know what happened. Until they provide more details you're only speculating that the Gunboat can't meet it's stated claims. But that doesn't seem to stop you, and others, from getting stuck into them. With relish.
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Old 17-02-2015, 02:08   #525
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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You're exactly right. It seems the main problem people have with this incident is that it happened to an expensive boat. If it was an "entry level" boat, most people wouldn't really give a rat's arse.

You mean, like if it were about a monohull that had been purchased on eBay for $10K, instead?

Yeah, no doubt you're spot on, hard to imagine anyone having a problem if that were to ever occur...

Sailing New England to Australia in February


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