Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-02-2015, 06:35   #196
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,970
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

I wonder if there was sufficient thought put into keeping the mast in column when sailing with a storm jib and triple reefed main?

In the picture you can see the third reef point just below the sail number. This reef would put the headboard right about at the spreaders. There are no forward lowers, after lowers, or intermediates on this rig. I wonder where the storm jib attached? -- a removable storm stay or just really long pennants on the aft headstay (Solent stay?)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2015-02-06 at 8.21.00 AM.png
Views:	273
Size:	239.1 KB
ID:	96704  
__________________

__________________
CarlF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2015, 08:24   #197
Registered User
 
Sand crab's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Boat: 34' Crowther tri sold 16' Kayak now
Posts: 3,157
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisAndNatasha View Post
Hi guys,
just a question. Remember a few months ago there was a 78ft carbon fibre gunboat mast for sale complete as they were replacing it with a much bigger rig? I'm curious whether it's the same boat? The rig was from 2001 and hailed from NY. I considered modifying that mast for our boat, but it wasn't economically viable as it was 3 metres taller, bit too much. I'm wondering whether it's the same boat. I can't find the email backwards and forwards with the skipper but thought someone on the forum might know whether it's the hot-rodded gb that lost its rig.
L&N


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
This boat was a brand new $2.5M boat and I will guarantee you it had new everything.
__________________

__________________
We don't need no stinking badges.
Sand crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2015, 09:07   #198
Registered User
 
GoingWalkabout's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: USA & Argentina
Boat: In the market for a Lagoon 56 (seems like the perfect fit)
Posts: 1,477
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Does anyone know if the Gun Boat has been salvaged? No further news on the Rainmaker leads me to think that a cloak of silence by the manufacturer has been invoked. Especially since this is such a public relations disaster for them.

Someone said that the skipper was very experienced. Another said he was 28 years of age. Well add his relative age that would still come with a still somewhat youthful sense of invincibility coupled with the manufacturers rhetoric about the performance of the Gun Boat with all the fancy storm protections then I think you have a perfect storm that would make this event almost inevitable. IMHO.

Still would love to hear the latest facts.
__________________
GoingWalkabout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2015, 09:22   #199
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 83
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Last info has a trawler en route (or on site by now) however the sea state is still a problem to effect a salvage.
__________________
Imprezza72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2015, 09:58   #200
Registered User
 
GoingWalkabout's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: USA & Argentina
Boat: In the market for a Lagoon 56 (seems like the perfect fit)
Posts: 1,477
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Thanks for the update.
__________________
GoingWalkabout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2015, 14:41   #201
Eternal Member

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 848
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imprezza72 View Post
Last info has a trawler en route (or on site by now) however the sea state is still a problem to effect a salvage.
Unfortunately, that's not the latest info posted by Clean over on SAILING ANARCHY...

Quote:

"The prospectors have all abandoned the search. No other news at the moment."


RAINMAKER DISMASTED OFF HATTERAS IN GALE - Page 4 - Sailing Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums
__________________
Jon Eisberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2015, 16:12   #202
Registered User
 
GoingWalkabout's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: USA & Argentina
Boat: In the market for a Lagoon 56 (seems like the perfect fit)
Posts: 1,477
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

No box beam used on the GB. First and only multihull to do away with the bow box beam. Could this be a serious design flaw that caused greater damage than so far disclosed. One report by a person on the boat was that a huge wave smacked into the mast and it went crashing down. Now seeing that there is no front box beam couldn't the huge wave have crashed into the bow and caused a structural separation which with the waves continued motion, bringing the mast crashing down. It would gave all happened so fast that the people inside wouldn't know what had hit them. This scenario involving the structural integrity of the boat being compromised would give weight to the need for rescue and the boats abandonment. If this were a plane crash all would be revealed. In this case maybe a cover up could be expected san an independent investigation. I think now the very seaworthiness of this vessel is brought into question.

Another thought is that perhaps we need an independent volunteer boating investigation unit to investigate such events. After all if design faults or mechanical faults are being sold then we need to know.
__________________
GoingWalkabout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2015, 17:44   #203
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Duluth,Minnesota
Boat: Lindenberg 26 & Aloha 8.2
Posts: 984
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand crab View Post
This boat was a brand new $2.5M boat and I will guarantee you it had new everything.
Im thinking it may not have had a new parachute sea anchor otherwise you would think they would have deployed it and waited for help to arrive rather than jump in the water and get hoisted into a chopper and all the risks involved with that assuming of course the boat was still sound other than no propulsion. Just a thought.

Steve.
__________________
clockwork orange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2015, 09:44   #204
Elvish meaning 'Far-Wanderer'
 
Palarran's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Me - Michigan / Boat - Tenerife
Boat: 56' Fountaine Pajot Marquises
Posts: 2,641
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Jon,
That was an interesting photo you posted on SA showing the stern of Rainmaker. For me, I can't believe that it would be capable of handling a large breaking following sea. My cat is the same length and probably sits 2' higher off the water. We took a wave over the aft that filled the cockpit with 8" of water. Without a sliding door that water would have blown straight through the cabin. The boat is really a poor design to head offshore into a gale. Some lessons can be hard learned and expensive and hopefully GB takes something away from this.


The silence from the crew and Gunboat tells a lot. When Team Vestis hit the reef at least they fessed up on the whole story right away.


Also, if this was a Fountaine Pajot or Lagoon sailed by a seasoned owner and the exact same thing happened the reaction from the forums would be so different then it has been with Rainmaker.
__________________
Not all who wander are lost

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/palarran/
Palarran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2015, 11:00   #205
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,334
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Jon,

The silence from the crew and Gunboat tells a lot. When Team Vestis hit the reef at least they fessed up on the whole story right away.


Also, if this was a Fountaine Pajot or Lagoon sailed by a seasoned owner and the exact same thing happened the reaction from the forums would be so different then it has been with Rainmaker.
The silence means that the lawyers have taken over. We will probably never hear what really happened.

If Gunboat makes any more statements, it will be to throw the owner, skipper and crew under the bus, like Alpha did. Right now, it looks like a seasoned professional skipper with heaps of experience in Gunboats lost one of their boats on an offshore delivery in heavy weather. How many Gunboats are they going to sell to people who don't plan to hire a sailing god to run the boat?
__________________
donradcliffe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2015, 12:54   #206
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,456
Images: 69
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Also, if this was a Fountaine Pajot or Lagoon sailed by a seasoned owner and the exact same thing happened the reaction from the forums would be so different then it has been with Rainmaker.
Yep, there would be no discussion at all. Why would there? A brand new boat experienced a rig failure, cause as yet unknown. It's not the first time it's happened, and it won't be the last.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2015, 12:55   #207
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,952
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Jon,
That was an interesting photo you posted on SA showing the stern of Rainmaker. For me, I can't believe that it would be capable of handling a large breaking following sea. My cat is the same length and probably sits 2' higher off the water. We took a wave over the aft that filled the cockpit with 8" of water. Without a sliding door that water would have blown straight through the cabin. The boat is really a poor design to head offshore into a gale. Some lessons can be hard learned and expensive and hopefully GB takes something away from this.


The silence from the crew and Gunboat tells a lot. When Team Vestis hit the reef at least they fessed up on the whole story right away.


Also, if this was a Fountaine Pajot or Lagoon sailed by a seasoned owner and the exact same thing happened the reaction from the forums would be so different then it has been with Rainmaker.
I agree with you, we all have our bias's and we give certain boats way to much slack while kicking the hell out of others which likely don't deserve it!
__________________
robert sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2015, 12:56   #208
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Walkabout View Post
No box beam used on the GB. First and only multihull to do away with the bow box beam. Could this be a serious design flaw that caused greater damage than so far disclosed. One report by a person on the boat was that a huge wave smacked into the mast and it went crashing down. Now seeing that there is no front box beam couldn't the huge wave have crashed into the bow and caused a structural separation which with the waves continued motion, bringing the mast crashing down. It would gave all happened so fast that the people inside wouldn't know what had hit them. This scenario involving the structural integrity of the boat being compromised would give weight to the need for rescue and the boats abandonment. If this were a plane crash all would be revealed. In this case maybe a cover up could be expected san an independent investigation. I think now the very seaworthiness of this vessel is brought into question.

Another thought is that perhaps we need an independent volunteer boating investigation unit to investigate such events. After all if design faults or mechanical faults are being sold then we need to know.
When you say box beam are you talking about the aluminum cross beam between the bows that usually acts as an anchoring point for the forestay, or the structural beam that supports the compression of the mast?
__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2015, 16:57   #209
Registered User
 
Poozer's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brisbane
Boat: Outremer 5X
Posts: 105
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

This has been an interesting thread. I'm always impressed by the knowledge and experience that is accessible on this forum!

Like many of you, I have been following this story with interest, and I think Gunboat has a big responsibility here.

Rainmaker was scheduled to be on show at the Miami Boat Show that starts next weekend. The weather report wasn't good, but they needed to take the boat down the coast. Was it unreasonable to expect this boat to be able to handle 35 knot winds and 4 meter seas? I would say not. Yes, the conditions deteriorated with squalls, but if I'm paying $3MM for "the safest world cruising boat that could be conceived", I would expect it to be able to handle these conditions without the rig being torn off.

In spite of what we are reading in the forums, the owner is a capable, intelligent individual. He had his son and crew aboard. After losing the rig he decided that conditions were severe enough that he needed to get everyone to safety, a decision that can not have been taken lightly. He does not appear to be the kind of person that takes foolish risks. I would expect he was following Gunboat's recommendations for sail configuration and handling of the boat in the prevailing conditions, yet he lost his mast and rig.

There is a growing trend towards high-tech, high performance cruising catamarans. These are awesome vessels, but their high power carbon rigs are pushing the envelope, and I hope the manufacturers of these boats will start being more realistic about the true limits to their use. Marketing is one thing, but preventable loss of life is priceless.
__________________
Poozer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2015, 17:09   #210
Elvish meaning 'Far-Wanderer'
 
Palarran's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Me - Michigan / Boat - Tenerife
Boat: 56' Fountaine Pajot Marquises
Posts: 2,641
Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Yep, there would be no discussion at all. Why would there? A brand new boat experienced a rig failure, cause as yet unknown. It's not the first time it's happened, and it won't be the last.
After 9 years and 4357 posts you must know that this would have been discussed to death. The boat didn't just experience a rig failure. It headed out into a North Atlantic gale off the coast of Cape Hatteras in January on it's first true offshore passage. It got hit by an unexpected squall in a gale with sails up that took the rig down. The squall was the cause of the rig failure - period. What part specifically broke isn't know by us but for sure by the crew. It then fouled both sail drives. It set off it's epirb even though it was sound and not taking on water. It was bashed by a freighter trying to rescue the crew. The crew was rescued by a Coast Guard Helo which almost ran out of gas.

You are right about it not being the last time a boat will lose it's rig, but I'd hope that with every one something is learned that helps prevent future accidents.
__________________

__________________
Not all who wander are lost

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/palarran/
Palarran is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
crew, dismasting, mast, rescue

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dismasting on the Hudson hycslim Monohull Sailboats 12 26-02-2012 07:22
Challenge: Dismasting Situation mauiboy86 Challenges 25 18-09-2011 04:02
Slight Dismasting witchcraft The Sailor's Confessional 8 07-10-2008 09:17
Broaching and Rolling with Dismasting maxingout General Sailing Forum 32 18-04-2007 13:41
Chain plate failure, dismasting in the Southern Ocean GrayGoose Construction, Maintenance & Refit 1 27-03-2005 08:19



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:59.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.