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Old 03-02-2015, 13:21   #166
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by beiland View Post
I don't think you understand the difference of a sudden impact load to the rigging verses those loads you might experience during hull flying.
I think you have lost the point here. The debate you are responding to is about engineering a "safety fuse" into the rigging components so that a rig is jettisoned before a boat flips.

This is not done. Period.

Nobody has argued that a rig will withstand all forces put on it. This doesn't even make sense. On any type of boat.

You seem to want to make a point that a big shock load outside of design specifications can bring down a rig. Nobody believes otherwise.

At least the cabin top of that boat providing all the hull structural stiffness and support didn't get compromised…

Mark
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Old 03-02-2015, 13:29   #167
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Georgetheleo,

You're a bit off base in bashing them for sailing in the Gulf Stream. 200 NM SE of Hatteras is well beyond the Stream. Besides, the report said that the damage was caused by 70 knot wind gusts, not waves.
BTW, at that location they are still in an area where there are huge eddies that are entirely random. Check out Phil Welds's book 'Rough Wave'...I think it was called.
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Old 03-02-2015, 13:34   #168
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
This was the first boat of a new model on basically its first off-shore sail (I think). They were sailing with a triple-reefed main and a storm jib when the mast/rigging failed.

Mark
You may have hit upon an interesting detail. Many times mast do not like reefed mainsails attached to them??
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Old 03-02-2015, 13:36   #169
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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At least the cabin top of that boat providing all the hull structural stiffness and support didn't get compromised…

Mark
I dunno, do you really suppose that lid really lends all that much structural support to the rest of the boat?

I'm no engineer, but I'm just not seeing much of that, there... I do see a whole lot of pretty glass, however ;-)


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Old 03-02-2015, 13:40   #170
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
I dunno, do you really suppose that lid really lends all that much structural support to the rest of the boat?

I'm no engineer, but I'm just not seeing much of that, there... I do see a whole lot of pretty glass, however ;-)
Sorry Jon, it was a joke - albeit only one that some of the multihull crowd here would understand.

For the record, the cabin top of any catamaran does not provide the structural support and stiffness for the hulls.

Except in the case of the Flyin' Hawaiian.

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Old 03-02-2015, 13:56   #171
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

I got it.
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Old 03-02-2015, 13:59   #172
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by boneboy View Post
From 34 sec to about 1:30 they are in tough conditions with just a small headsail, and seem to be almost enjoying it.
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Certainly a great saloon/galley/cockpit space. What visability.
THOSE are NOT TOUGH conditions. Tough conditions are when the waves are high enough that when you are in the troughs the tops are mast height.

That 'great visibility' might not be so enjoyable at those times.
It was some times like this that I wanted to hide out below during my time off watch. (monohull in this case)
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Old 03-02-2015, 14:24   #173
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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For the record, the cabin top of any catamaran does not provide the structural support and stiffness for the hulls.

Mark
Actually that is not true either. And in a number of cases it would be a good idea to design some cats with this feature incorporated.

I was proposing to utilize some reinforcing of the cabin top along with that major bulkhead for this free-standing Dyna-rig cat

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Old 03-02-2015, 14:34   #174
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Actually that is not true either.
Here we go!

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Old 03-02-2015, 14:47   #175
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

BTW I have not looked closely at this particular Gunboat design, but I believe I do not see the 'usual' forward cockpit on this vessel as utilized in the majority of their previous vessels,...and certainly not the 'walk-thru' to that forward cockpit. My guess is they had to 'interrupt' this walk-thru in order to provide for a bulkhead across this region,...as there is very little 'upper boxing structure' (cabin top or other) to help keep this cat from folding down the middle.
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Old 03-02-2015, 15:03   #176
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

I made mention of this proposed Gunboat 55 model back in 2011 over on this forum
Weekender/Picnic PowerCat | YachtForums: The World’s Largest Yachting Community

...and some of its similarities to a 'picnic cat' I had seen in Thailand.

...and note here that the cabin top of that Thai vessel does have a structural purpose
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Old 03-02-2015, 17:54   #177
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

I know the tendency is to second guess the boat and rig. Let's be honest- they got hit by a white squall with too much sail up and they are lucky they lost their rig, otherwise likely would have flipped. A mono would have been laid on it's side and if every locker not buttoned up, could downfill and sink.

Bottom line, this was a huge, forecasted winter storm and they were in dangerous waters in winter. The issue isn't the boat. It's the decision to go at this time of year. Doesn't matter how much technology has advanced- schedules are a sailor's enemy. Hubris about boat safety, speed, etc only make people rationalize safety into bad decisions.


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Old 03-02-2015, 18:42   #178
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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....

Bottom line, this was a huge, forecasted winter storm and they were in dangerous waters in winter. The issue isn't the boat. It's the decision to go at this time of year. Doesn't matter how much technology has advanced- schedules are a sailor's enemy. Hubris about boat safety, speed, etc only make people rationalize safety into bad decisions.
I can relate to that scheduling thing. I wanted to make Jost Van Dyke by News Years. So I left the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay on Christmas Eve knowing there was a good size cold front coming (didn't know it was going to be as bad as it turned out).

We had a wonderful time getting out past the Gulf Stream (at least I think we were past it). But then the storm hit with a violence. I don't recall a wall of wind on this particular occasion.

I just found one previous posting I had made on the subject:
Furling Mainsail or Not ?
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Old 03-02-2015, 22:12   #179
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
Oh man...
First.... The boat was CLEARLY taking on water.... Things can go from "manageable dewatering" to "we have less than 5 minutes" in a heartbeat...

When you call for help... They come when it is best determined by the professionals....



I'll send a PM and help explain the rules and etiquette...



+1x1,000x.....

(quote redacted for clarity)
You apparently missed the part where I said "ASSUMING THE BOAT WAS STILL STRUCTURALLY SOUND". I also was not aware that the boat was CLEARLY taking on water, it is not clear at all to me.
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Old 04-02-2015, 18:23   #180
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by beiland View Post
BTW, at that location they are still in an area where there are huge eddies that are entirely random. Check out Phil Welds's book 'Rough Wave'...I think it was called.
YEP!
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