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Old 03-02-2015, 09:31   #151
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Jon,
I had initally quoted that in this thread and it came from the text that accompanied the video on the Coast Guards site. But darn if I can find it now. It was there, a direct quote, but maybe it was removed because it was in error.
Interesting, thank you...
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Old 03-02-2015, 09:32   #152
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
In that case bring it on. This things got more space than a couple of my last apartments combined!
Probably costs more also?

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Old 03-02-2015, 10:22   #153
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Jon,
I had initally quoted that in this thread and it came from the text that accompanied the video on the Coast Guards site. But darn if I can find it now. It was there, a direct quote, but maybe it was removed because it was in error.
Don't discount the fact that highly paid lawyers are now involved from the BO, Insurer as well as the vessel manufacturer. Any adverse statement that would reflect on the manufacturer would get a swift response from the manufacturers lawyers. If the mast came down because of a large wave then this will be horrific for the manufacturer. You had better believe there is big time information management going on. Any news on the boats recovery? Does anyone know the name of the insurance company? If I were the insurer I would be tracking that boat and getting my hands on it as soon as I could. But then again maybe these insurance companies make so much money that they are willing to let it go and not spend the effort in retrieval.
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Old 03-02-2015, 10:38   #154
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Don't discount the fact that highly paid lawyers are now involved from the BO, Insurer as well as the vessel manufacturer. Any adverse statement that would reflect on the manufacturer would get a swift response from the manufacturers lawyers. If the mast came down because of a large wave then this will be horrific for the manufacturer. You had better believe there is big time information management going on. Any news on the boats recovery? Does anyone know the name of the insurance company? If I were the insurer I would be tracking that boat and getting my hands on it as soon as I could. But then again maybe these insurance companies make so much money that they are willing to let it go and not spend the effort in retrieval.
Its my understanding that a fishing trawler is well on its way to pick up the boat and is cooperating in some way with the manufacturer.
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Old 03-02-2015, 10:46   #155
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Quite funy to point the rig and the fact that came down in heavy winds and bad seas, Rigs come down in a regular basis by many reasons, blame Hall Spar dont make any sense , they make Huge masts for really big boats , this season we change 3 mast so far, a Jeaneau break in half the mast without apparent reason, rig inspected last year , could be a internal crack in the spar, and a large catamarán break the mast in the way to BVI in 15 knts of breeze without warning, rig inspected 2 weeks ago prior the incident... Rigs and rigging are in the gamble in heavy weather, most likely blame the owner and skipper for leaving a perfect hig tech Carbon liferaft to the mercy of the ocean.....
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Old 03-02-2015, 10:47   #156
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Its my understanding that a fishing trawler is well on its way to pick up the boat and is cooperating in some way with the manufacturer.
Thanks. At this point I would trust the insurance company more than the manufacturer who has so much to loose in this episode.
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Old 03-02-2015, 11:09   #157
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

Thats great if so, you can bet it will be interesting for sure! Is there a way for someone on land to track a boat, say a long distance thing.. I know about spot gps but was thinking of other ways? I mean can or do they track a wreck for inc or even a danger to others? or say a single salor that had a health issue, a tracking devise for his family to watch him without spending alot trying to chat everyday? I was just thinking it would suck to run into that mess!
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Old 03-02-2015, 12:08   #158
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Thats great if so, you can bet it will be interesting for sure! Is there a way for someone on land to track a boat, say a long distance thing.. I know about spot gps but was thinking of other ways? I mean can or do they track a wreck for inc or even a danger to others? or say a single salor that had a health issue, a tracking devise for his family to watch him without spending alot trying to chat everyday? I was just thinking it would suck to run into that mess!
Gunboat has all the bases covered:

Gunboat Catamarans Feature GOST Security

But then, there is this from the report published in YACHTING WORLD:

Quote:
It was then that the decision was taken to ask for a helicopter evacuation. The Gunboat is reportedly fine and was left ready to be towed. As this is being posted, a trawler is en route from North Carolina to try and salvage the stricken cat, but conditions are currently still bad, with up to 80-knot winds. The Coastguard helicopter crew put a 30-day tracking beacon aboard, so Johnstone remains confident they will retrieve RAINMAKER and get her back to the yard – “and hopefully back on the water again for the owner’s summer.”

Read more at The first Gunboat 55 catamaran Rainmaker dismasts and is abandoned in the Atlantic – 5 crewmembers airlifted - Yachting World
This registered with me when I read it, as it was the first time I can recall of the CG supplying a tracking beacon to a yacht being abandoned. It certainly didn't happen with the Alpha 42 last winter, for instance. And, watching these CG videos, one has to wonder how the placing of such a tracker aboard was actually carried out, the rescue swimmer obviously has a higher priority in getting the people out of the water, than in ferrying a tracking beacon aboard the yacht. While these videos are always somewhat incomplete, never do we see the rescue swimmer getting any closer to the boat than is necessary in order to rendezvous with a crew swimming away from the boat... Especially, with time running as short as it did with this particular rescue, and the helo not even having the fuel to make it back to Elizabeth City...

Again, this report strikes me as a bit curious. Is this some new procedure the CG has instituted? Or, is it one simply reserved for $2 million CRUISING WORLD Boat of the Year Winners, owned by fabulously wealthy venture capitalists?

;-))

Can anyone recall having heard of the CG placing a tracking beacon on an abandoned yacht during the course of a helo evacuation before? I'm inclined to believe the YW report is simply in error, and the 30 day beacon mentioned is part of the GOST system referred to in the link above...
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Old 03-02-2015, 12:52   #159
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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"... Ironically, the Gunboat web site suggests that the Gunboat's speed is a safety factor, allowing you to "sail around storms."..."

Sure.

[/QUOTE]
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Old 03-02-2015, 12:55   #160
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Complete and utter garbage. You could just as easily say deep keeled boats have the same weakness - they are stiffer so don't "relieve the strain" blah blah...

It's simply a matter of sizing the standing rigging appropriately.

Obviously when a new boat loses it's mast, there has been some fault in the rigging that hasn't been seen.
It is not garbage. The stability qualities of the vessel are not always so easy to compensate for.

From another forum
Quote:
It sounds like they had a “fuse” in the rigging… intentional or otherwise
We’ve previously discussed “fused” mainsheets or travellers as safety valves.


With the sheer mass of the boat, I would expect the shock or instantaneous loading on the rigging in a sudden gust to be orders of magnitude above the righting moment of the boat… Is that logic correct? So .. just possibly.. the designer didn’t allow for a large enough safety factor to account for shock loading ?? I’m not even remotely familiar with how instantaneous “sudden gust” means



I've been in that area, and got hit with literally a WALL of Wind, ..at night when we thought the front had already passed earlier that evening at dusk. Fortunately on that occasion I was on a 47 monohull ketch that just got blown over completely on its side (unfortunately several port holds were open), but we only stayed all way over for a very short period of time.


It would be near impossible (nor practical) to design a catamaran's rigging to be strong enough to survive such a sudden impact loading.
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Old 03-02-2015, 13:03   #161
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

You are confusing improperly designed load calculations with intentionally designing in a "safety fuse" in the rigging.

The latter is never done. The former seems to be more common.

There will always be a load that breaks rigging on every boat. A mono knocked down can snap its rig by hitting it in the water. Booms and poles do this quite regularly in racing boats.

Of course, to be pedantic, all rigs have a "fuse" because it is not possible to design them so that the entirety of its components all blow together.

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Old 03-02-2015, 13:07   #162
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
No one in their right mind who knows these waters would leave from North Carolina in late January to a destination in the Eastern Caribbean. Weather routers aside, this is a foolhardy venture by even a very well found and tested motor sailor.

Rather, the prudent mariner would go SOUTH inside the Gulf Stream, hopping down the coast to at least Jacksonville. Then, waiting for a weather window, h/she would head EAST as fast as possible, above the Abacos as far as possible before angling south and reaching I95.

Bill
Not necessary so Bill. You have a much better sailing angle to reach the Caribbean from a departure further north. You just got to make sure you get out past the gulf stream, then potentially (likely) run downwind to the south. Much easier than trying to beat all way east against the trades of the Caribbean.
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Old 03-02-2015, 13:14   #163
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Quote:

"... Ironically, the Gunboat web site suggests that the Gunboat's speed is a safety factor, allowing you to "sail around storms."..."

Sure.
Perhaps even more ironic, given the choice to abandon:

Quote:

If a storm is unavoidable, safety is derived from the ability to surf sideways. With daggerboards up, the round bottom hulls will skate sideways along waves, and the long high bows offer tremendous reserve buoyancy. We believe mega catamarans are the safest platform for surviving the worst weather.

Unsinkable

Six water-tight bulkheads, and a carbon reinforced underbody make flooding very unlikely. The composite laminate’s foam core acts as the ultimate reserve buoyancy. Even with the unthinkable, it remains unsinkable.
Still, until we learn more, I'm inclined to accept the indication from a poster on SA who has presumably spoken with someone who was aboard, that there was "more than just a dismasting" that they were dealing with, out there... Only time will tell...


Maybe... ;-)
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Old 03-02-2015, 13:15   #164
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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Sorry wrong again, lots of racing cats have capsized from wind alone, rigs intact. I am an ex builder of a line of cruising catamarans, Where during the capsize from wind should the rig jettison? With the windward hull two feet off the water ? Ten feet? Lot's of performance cruisers like Tag 60 and Gunboats routinely fly hulls, which is a sudden wind increase away from capsize. ANY cruising cat that jettisons its rig before capsize is under engineered.
I don't think you understand the difference of a sudden impact load to the rigging verses those loads you might experience during hull flying.
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Old 03-02-2015, 13:19   #165
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Re: GUNBOAT Dismasting

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I'll sail a gunboat. I've been looking at cats and I would love a gunboat. Load meters on rigging to keep tabs of load, someone didn't read it correctly? malfunction of something/anything that caused a chain of events causing the mast to fail? But one thing for sure.... The question of the boat being holed should not be that big a deal on a gunboat because if every compartment is flooded the gunboat WILL NOT SINK. to me if I'm 1000 miles away from anywhere my gunboat WILL always stay afloat so that gives me a secure feeling even with a life raft . I'll take that over a keel boat that like many keelboats rest on the bottom in every ocean with a hole in the bottom. I wonder why the engines couldn't get them home? I guess we will get the full low down in a week or so.
BTW, where is the definite proof that the MAST failed? Was is the rigging that really let go?,.... then the boat was demasted?
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