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Old 31-03-2008, 18:10   #61
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I agree that it was surely staged. If I am right that the cat blocked the wind and caused the luff in the mono's mainsail, then possibly the resulting unbalanced headsail actually initiated the maneuver?
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Old 31-03-2008, 18:48   #62
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Imho, it was staged. The mono had to bear away due to course interference, but the cat was the burdened vessel as he was passing the mono on a lower course. If contact had occurred during an actual situation, the cat could have been in deep doo doo.

(never going back to a mono)
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Old 01-04-2008, 00:54   #63
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Here is what Peter Johnstone, the creator of Gunboats, has to say about the video. He was on Safari at the time.

Who says big cats dont heal? - Sailing Anarchy Forums

You can decide for yourself to what extent this account is colored by self interest.
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Old 03-04-2008, 23:13   #64
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My personal opinion, from both the dollars and cents as well as performance stand point, the Atlantic 57 is a lot more boat. At 2/3 rd's the cost of a Gun Boat 48, it is a bargain. Plus, when similarly loaded, it will out perform a Gun Boat 48 under all conditions. It is also all epoxy construction, and because of the larger displacement, it can be loaded up lot more than the Gun Boat 48 for cruising before effecting performance. That is probably why several sailors that had Gun Boats on order canceled the orders and are having Atlantic 57's built. Atlantic's are not stripped out racing boat, but rather nicely appointed very fast cruising cats.

Chris White, the Atlantic designer, posted these photos on his web site. He was curious as to how his personal Atlantic 55' would perform compared to the new Catana 50', whose brochure describes it as a very fast cat.

Right after the Annapolis Show this year Chris had a chance to see how fast a Catana 50 was, as one sailed past him out for a demo sail. He waited until it was well past him and then he turned around to catch up. The two photos were taken only 4 minutes apart as his Atlantic 55 caught up and went sailing past the Catana 50, at a rate nearly 50% faster in light air.

I was on the Catana when this picture was taken. The broker was commented that that that Atlantic 55 was unfairly overtaking the Catana because they were pointing higher into the wind. I haven't studied the polars but it didn't make sense to me at the time.

As I recall we were doing ~5-6 knots in 10-12 knots apparent in the Catana. I sailed the Atlantic 55 the day before and we were doing 7-8 knots in 6-7 knot apparent.

The two boats are nothing like one another except in price.

We decided to buy an Atlantic about 24 hours after this picture was taken.
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Old 04-04-2008, 03:26   #65
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I was on the Catana when this picture was taken. The broker was commented that that that Atlantic 55 was unfairly overtaking the Catana because they were pointing higher into the wind. I haven't studied the polars but it didn't make sense to me at the time.

As I recall we were doing ~5-6 knots in 10-12 knots apparent in the Catana. I sailed the Atlantic 55 the day before and we were doing 7-8 knots in 6-7 knot apparent.

The two boats are nothing like one another except in price.

We decided to buy an Atlantic about 24 hours after this picture was taken.

Congratulations! A good decision in my opinion. I think that Catanas used to be better performers in the old days, but in the last few years thay have gone down the Condomaran route.

I'm sure the Atlantic will be a whole lot more fun and will give you the best possible /$ of the boats available at the moment.

I think that the Atlantic cockpit is nicer than the Gunboat workpit also, and performance wise you will be pretty close as well.

When do you get your boat?

Regards

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Old 04-04-2008, 06:22   #66
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I sailed the Atlantic 55 the day before and we were doing 7-8 knots in 6-7 knot apparent.
Not to be a stickler but you can't sail at 7-8 with an ap wind of 6-7 knots of breeze. The ap has to be at least as high as boat speed.

Congrats on the new boat, the 55 is very pretty.
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Old 04-04-2008, 06:42   #67
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Not to be a stickler but you can't sail at 7-8 with an ap wind of 6-7 knots of breeze. The ap has to be at least as high as boat speed.

Congrats on the new boat, the 55 is very pretty.
G'day,


Sailing dead down wind at half the wind speed (not likely, but possible in a low drag boat with big sails) in a 15 knot breeze will produce this. Come up to a reach and it is also possible. 10 knots true, 90 degrees between course and true breeze the boat does 8 knots, the apparent becomes 6 (a 3,4,5 triangle)

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Rob
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Old 04-04-2008, 06:45   #68
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Yea, thinking upwind I guess.

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G'day,


Sailing dead down wind at half the wind speed (not likely, but possible in a low drag boat with big sails) in a 15 knot breeze will produce this. Come up to a reach and it is also possible. 10 knots true, 90 degrees between course and true breeze the boat does 8 knots, the apparent becomes 6 (a 3,4,5 triangle)

regards,

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Old 04-04-2008, 06:49   #69
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Apparently

I hear what your saying Joli . But maybe he was running square at 7-8 knts and seeing 6-7 apparent from behind. ie 15 knots true. Certainly not worth reporting unless your last boat was maybe a wetsnail 33.

Hmm rob apparent becomes approx 13 for 8 knots boat speed in 10 knots true at 90 deg.
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Old 04-04-2008, 07:18   #70
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For the record, I think the Atlantic boats are the coolest cats on the market. I couldn't find a used one when I was IN the market.

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The broker was commented that that that Atlantic 55 was unfairly overtaking the Catana because they were pointing higher into the wind.
Did the broker really say "unfairly"? Who was it? Depending on the relative angles, a boat higher on the wind will be faster, all other things being equal. Nothing "unfair" about that. But I have little doubt that the Atlantic is faster than the C-50. It's probably a lot lighter. My 471 might be faster. Were the sail plans comparable?

Rob said: "Sailing dead down wind at half the wind speed (not likely, but possible in a low drag boat with big sails)........"

It's more likely than you think. We routinely make a little more than 1/2 the true wind speed DDW under sym spi in flat water up to about 25 kts true. (Haven't tried the sym spi above that.) I bet quite a few other cats can do the same.

Dave
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Old 04-04-2008, 07:46   #71
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Not to be a stickler but you can't sail at 7-8 with an ap wind of 6-7 knots of breeze. The ap has to be at least as high as boat speed.

Congrats on the new boat, the 55 is very pretty.
Yeah?? -

I'd better stop doing it then -
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Old 04-04-2008, 21:11   #72
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Not to be a stickler but you can't sail at 7-8 with an ap wind of 6-7 knots of breeze. The ap has to be at least as high as boat speed.

Congrats on the new boat, the 55 is very pretty.
Sorry I misspoke. We were sailing true wind speed plus a little.


Here's more fodder from one of Chris's fans on his website:

"We've got flat seas an apparent wind angle of 60 deg keeping us on the rhumb. At this moment I'm looking at a boat speed of 13kts in 16kts of true. This is sustained speed, no surfing and no crap. We've matched true wind speed on numerous occasions and topped true about once each hour (documented on video). Let me repeat: NO SURFING AND NO CRAP. These numbers are good and GPS confirmed. Take 'em to the bank. Put 'em on your website. I'd stake Penfield's life on these numbers. Talk about sweet spot-JESUS. What else can I say. The ride is as smooth as glass and she is itching for more. We are all in complete awe. I don't think I've ever seen it all come together quite like this. You know what - it's getting better as I write. We're now doing a sustained 15-16kts in 17-18kts of true. Once again; NO SURFING AND NO CRAP."
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Old 04-04-2008, 21:35   #73
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True wind direction?

"an apparent wind angle of 60 deg" Um, I'm not used to flying by instrument. What was the true wind direction, maybe a point abaft the beam?
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Old 05-04-2008, 14:26   #74
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Hey, this is my video!!

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Fast is fun and can be comfortable. Atlantic 42' at 20 knots

Funny how things get around on the internet. I just started reading this forum and found my video. We were on day 4 of our 7 day shot from Newport to the BVI in Nov 2007. We avg'd about 200 miles per day short handed riding a cold front from Newport. In this shot we were reefed down taking is easy for a little bit. We picked up some weeds on the rudders and had to keep the boat beloew 13kts to avoid the rudder vibration. After this video we stopped the boat and clean the rudders. We have some other video of us sailing a constant 15 to 20kts and having a ball. What a great trip we had. BTW...this is the Atlantic 48 Zen. We are headed to Australia and will be posting a lot more info on our web site if anyone is interested. Antigua - live in color | s/v Zen - family cruising catamaran. BTW...the new videos are much better quality.
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Old 06-04-2008, 07:51   #75
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Funny how things get around on the internet................................. We have some other video of us sailing a constant 15 to 20kts and having a ball. What a great trip we had. BTW...this is the Atlantic 48 Zen. We are headed to Australia and will be posting a lot more info on our web site if anyone is interested..............
Your web site was given to me by Kristen, following discussion on their Atlantic 48 under construction Horizon Under Construction. I've been following your adventure on Zen. Looks like you and your family are having a great time. Post the video sailing at 15 to 20 knots.
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