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Old 23-11-2015, 05:47   #61
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Re: Gunboat Bankruptcy

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I disagree with some posts that JayR has posted, but the last one seems just good sense to me and it is not needed to have rum a corporation to have an idea of how things are done. A knowledge of yacht business will be enough.

Fact is that to run a small family type of Yacht business, making very few boats a year it is not necessary a big initial investment. The boats typically will have high quality and will be expensive.

If one wants to expand from that to a medium production business, still offering high quality boats in bigger quantities at lower prices, than a very big investment is needed. That was what Gunboat was trying to do and it was not the first company that went down trying that difficult passage from a a family business to a corporate one.
It was a question not a criticism.

Given that you have disagreed with several of Skipjr's posts, It seems relevant to know if his comments are based on real life experience or sideline observation.

For the record, I disagree with your statement: "A knowledge of yacht business will be enough." based on the simple "fact" that companies hire business managers who have no knowledge of the industries they are hired into but know how to structure a business for profit. They study the problems and take into account all factors and then make a business plan.

Henry Ford no less ratified this point when asked if he knew how to run a business. He replied: "No but I can hire people who do." (paraphrased).

It is too easy to criticise a failed business plan without knowing the path the company took to get where the problems multiplied and got out of control.

Most business fail, not through lack of profitability, but through lack of cash flow. Add to this a couple of delays, manufacturing issues and before you know it the fat lady is singing.

Nobody starts a company to fail. (Unless there is money in it).

One of my friends has been in design and manufacture with Chinese companies for a number of years. It is all down to price and oversight. HIs products range from functional to downright beautiful. the difference is pennies on the volume per item. The Chinese have no problem making a product as good or as poor as you want it. Its down to the customer to be on top of it from the mold process on.

I have no idea what happened to the Chinese boats produced for Gunboat. More than likely, a lack of oversight during manufacture contributed to a substandard product....or as GB suggests, maybe the company was cheated. The courts will decide.

Gunboat was and IS an innovative step forward in design, speed and comfort. The concepts will be resurrected and the ideas continue, either with this company or with someone else.

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Old 23-11-2015, 09:11   #62
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Re: Gunboat Bankruptcy

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
It was a question not a criticism.

Given that you have disagreed with several of Skipjr's posts, It seems relevant to know if his comments are based on real life experience or sideline observation.

For the record, I disagree with your statement: "A knowledge of yacht business will be enough." based on the simple "fact" that companies hire business managers who have no knowledge of the industries they are hired into but know how to structure a business for profit. They study the problems and take into account all factors and then make a business plan.
....
Gunboat was and IS an innovative step forward in design, speed and comfort. The concepts will be resurrected and the ideas continue, either with this company or with someone else.
...
A needed knowledge of yacht business has not to do directly with managing an industrial production, being them cars or boats, to the highest level of efficiency and that means lower price for product.

A needed knowledge of the yacht business is needed to know what type of boat, with what characteristics and with what price tag should be produced to be commercially successful on a given sailboat market niche.

The manager will be able to run the industrialized manufacture process efficiently but if it comes from another world (for instance car industry) he does not know anything, or very little regarding boat market and the type/characteristics and boat/price tag that should be produced to be successful.

As JayR pointed out, in a very awkward way, Gunfleet brought nothing new in what regards the design of performance cats but introduced them to the Luxury world, making luxurious boats, more expensive than other performance cats with similar performance but with more luxurious interiors. That means a completely new market for cats, a market that was the exclusive of bigger performance yachts of about the same price.

And he has done that successfully with many boats sold, having into consideration the small market size for that type of boats.

One of the things that that lead to the Gunboat bankruptcy was to go out of that luxury niche, were everybody wants to have big and bigger boats to producing smaller boats pointed to a different market, the same that several European brands have being dominating for years, brands like Catana or Outremer.

For that and for competing with price/quality/performance Gunboat need not only a more industrialized production (big investment) but lower the quality of the finish on the boats (maintaining a good level) and assure solid well built boats with a similar performance. He went out of his comfort zone market to try a go on the main performance cat's market, a much more competitive market and it did not work out for several reasons that many have already pointed out here.
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Old 23-11-2015, 09:50   #63
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Re: Gunboat Bankruptcy

These days, corporate bankruptcy is just a financial maneuver. The people, equipment, and inventory will simply be "sold", and be used to open a new and surprising similar boat company where there will be many happy reunions of old coworkers!
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Old 23-11-2015, 10:23   #64
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Re: Gunboat Bankruptcy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
A needed knowledge of yacht business has not to do directly with managing an industrial production, being them cars or boats, to the highest level of efficiency and that means lower price for product.

A needed knowledge of the yacht business is needed to know what type of boat, with what characteristics and with what price tag should be produced to be commercially successful on a given sailboat market niche.

The manager will be able to run the industrialized manufacture process efficiently but if it comes from another world (for instance car industry) he does not know anything, or very little regarding boat market and the type/characteristics and boat/price tag that should be produced to be successful.

As JayR pointed out, in a very awkward way, Gunfleet brought nothing new in what regards the design of performance cats but introduced them to the Luxury world, making luxurious boats, more expensive than other performance cats with similar performance but with more luxurious interiors. That means a completely new market for cats, a market that was the exclusive of bigger performance yachts of about the same price.

And he has done that successfully with many boats sold, having into consideration the small market size for that type of boats.

One of the things that that lead to the Gunboat bankruptcy was to go out of that luxury niche, were everybody wants to have big and bigger boats to producing smaller boats pointed to a different market, the same that several European brands have being dominating for years, brands like Catana or Outremer.

For that and for competing with price/quality/performance Gunboat need not only a more industrialized production (big investment) but lower the quality of the finish on the boats (maintaining a good level) and assure solid well built boats with a similar performance. He went out of his comfort zone market to try a go on the main performance cat's market, a much more competitive market and it did not work out for several reasons that many have already pointed out here.
I have no idea if you are correct or not. Time will reveal the reasons-or perhaps it wont. I understand that investment funds were available at one time.

I also know that some people who own companies are not the people who should run them. Again I respectfully point out that a business manager who becomes the CEO or COO will have taken a hard look at the market before accepting the position and have worked out what is necessary to move the company forward to profit. He or she will probably not have known the yacht business before, but will know profitability given a set of circumstances occurring and whether its achievable or not. A lot of the people who 'know' the business but have a dream will go ahead regardless.

For those who have run or currently run a large business, there is a lack of inclination to point fingers until all the facts are known. There by the grace of God and bad circumstances goes anyone.

Regardless of the personal viewpoint of everyone, Gunboat made a difference simply by being an upmarket vessel with a great design and using the magical Carbon Fibre in huge quantities. I cant afford one but I have dreamed of owning one and I dont even want one!

We will see if restructuring will get it back on track.

All the difficulties were basically management decisions and some bad luck---or not.

I hope they sort it. Sailing needs its dreams.
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Old 23-11-2015, 10:57   #65
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Re: Gunboat Bankruptcy

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Originally Posted by weavis View Post
...
I hope they sort it. Sailing needs its dreams.
Yes, I completely agree with you on that and I had already said it before. No sense into saying that a sailboat is no good because it is pointed to a millionaire's luxury market. I am very happy that they like sailboats instead of motorboats, that way we will have the pleasure of seeing beautiful sailboats, not only cats but also maxi yachts and as you say, dream with them.

Anyway any millionaire that buys a big sailing boat is giving a lot of work to many people, from the ones that make the boat hardware, to the ones that built the boat and to the sailors that will be needed to sail the boat.

https://vimeo.com/96196530
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Old 20-12-2015, 09:49   #66
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Re: Gunboat Bankruptcy

I have looked and looked, I would like to know what failed on Rainmaker
for the mast to come down, rigging, chain plates, carbon fiber mast?

Anybody know..

Ivan
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Old 20-12-2015, 10:29   #67
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Re: Gunboat Bankruptcy

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Ivan.

I don't know what the initial point of failure was.

http://www.spinsheet.com/gunboat-55-.../#.VnblrVKidOg
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