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Old 07-11-2007, 14:10   #76
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Damn, but we are fools! Joli lives in bloody land locked Ohio. He's miles from the sea. No wonder he's talking out of his rectum. Rivers in Egypt? Purple Coolaid? What's that foul brew? I thought the State drink is tomato juice! All those race results he's been posting and all those conversations with other sailors? They're figments of his imagination.:de vil:

Sure there's some lake to the north, but I'm in England and nowhere are we more that 70 miles from the sea. That's why we can all sail.

My bet is that the 2,500+ lakes and 43,000 miles of river landscapes belong to another state and are just on loan und zer are too many Germans zer.

The State motto is "With God all things are possible." but it might well as be "Gott Mit Uns"

Pericles
You don't like fresh water? It's nice, no itching and the boat doesn't corrode so quickly. Our season is short though.
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Old 07-11-2007, 14:14   #77
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Well Joli, I do not have a racing boat. I have no interrest is regular racing anymore. I raced small cats for 25+ years and never was beaten by a monohull - mostly because we didn't race PHRF. I don't remember even ever getting passed by a monohull day sailing.

If you believe a J46 can beat me around a course, fine. You can tell everyone I said "OK". <yawn> But how you figure a boat limited to about 9 knots hull speed (with maybe intermittantly more surfing) can beat me with no hull speed limit and demonstrated 12 - 15 knots on flat water suggests you're the one on coolaid. But hey, if you're ever on the Bay look me up and I'll buy you a beer. We'll share racing stories.

Dave
Well Dave, one day we'll have the boat out east and we'll have a little bit of a fun race. Win, loose, or draw I'll buy the first round. Hell, you can be the rabbit, I'll duck.

And no I don't race anymore either, we sail an old cruisers.
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Old 07-11-2007, 14:32   #78
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The fact is multihulls hardly ever get to race against monohulls. Even when they race the same course they are seperated. Usually the mono's get abut an hour's head start. (Which usually still isn't enough)

The Brisbane - Gladstone race is one where mono's and Multi's run the same course at nearly the same time (They do give the mono's a head start). For as long as I can remember the multi's have had the shortest elapsed time. By some hours. The last 4 years Raw Nerve has won the multihull race, and been home hours before the first monohull. (After sailing a longer course, and starting later) Raw Nerve is a 50 foot cat. Some of the mono's to enter the race include Ichi Ban, and Wild Oats. So a 50 foot cat (and not a new boat by any means) regularly beats the latest, high tech, megabuck canting keel (thus motoring) maxi yachts. (Although not officially of course - they are in a "seperate" race)

The really disgusting thing is how the media only seem to see the monohulls. Last year they showed footage of the race "winner" crossing the line, and in the background you could see Raw Nerve already tied up, the crew in the pub on their third or fourth round.
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Old 07-11-2007, 16:59   #79
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Race results usually reflect a ratings correted time so with a good rating a bathtub with a bed sheet could blow away a gunboat.

Mike
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Old 07-11-2007, 19:49   #80
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Cats to Hobart...

So how many multis pace the fleet in the Sydney Hobart race?
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Old 07-11-2007, 20:09   #81
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None, but what is your point?
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Old 07-11-2007, 20:12   #82
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Hey Boracay,

have you got some photos of your boat from off the boat.

look forward to seeing you on the Harbour (or Pittwater?).

daniel
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Old 07-11-2007, 21:13   #83
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So how many multis pace the fleet in the Sydney Hobart race?

I have actually heard of cats leaving Sydney just before the fleet and arriving at Hobart many hours before them. IIRC "Ama 2" once did this. A friend sailed on a cat which comfortably kept pace with the front runners as far as Kiama, and pulled in there. Cruising boats, not racing boats, in both cases.

Regardless, there is absolutely no doubt that if allowed to enter, multihulls would run away with the Sydney - Hobart, as they have with all the ocean races they have been allowed to enter.

Imagine the canting keelers, even with their engines chugging away full time, trying to keep up with this.



And the newer multi's such as Orange 2 and Geronimo are even faster.
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Old 07-11-2007, 21:14   #84
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The fact is multihulls hardly ever get to race against monohulls.
That's a long tradition. When L. Francis Herreshoff raced his "Amarillys" in 1876 against a fleet of monos he came in first in class. Multihulls were immediately banned from the more prestigious races.

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Old 07-11-2007, 21:25   #85
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Something in the same vein as the Gunboat video, but at a budget price (well the mono aint cheap)

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Old 08-11-2007, 03:07   #86
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Originally Posted by Joli View Post
Figures don't lie but ...
You are so right - these are just 24 hour records - theres more different categories, but we have seen JOLI be myopic before. The one I like is how Dame Ellen is 23 days faster round the world in her tri than her mono - same sailor same oceans - different boat. Oh and Joli - on multis we consider having to run motors (canting keel boats) to not really be in the spirit of sailing.

The other interesting thing is Champion of the sea did a run of 467 miles in 1854 - it took over 140 years before a mono got close - thats what you call development. Indeed we had to go thorugh the entire 20th century without any boat catchinhg it.

With all due respect why dont you bugger off and pick a fight somewhere else


24 Hour Distance Records

Outright:

Pre-WSSR
1854 "Champion of the Sea" 225ft Clipper, USA, 467nm. 19.46kts
1984 "Formule Tag" 75ft Tri, Mike Birch, CAN, 512.5nm. 21.35kts
1987 "Fleury Michon VIII" 75ft Tri, Philippe Poupon, FRA, 517nm. 21.54kts
1990 "Jet Services V" 75ft Cat, Serge Madec, FRA, 522.73nm. 21.85kts
1994 "Lyonnaise des Eaux"75ft Tri, Olivier de Kersauson, FRA, 524.63nm. 21.91kts
WSSR Ratified
1994 "Primagaz" 60ft Tri, Laurent Bourgnon, FRA, 540nm. 22.5kts
1994 "Explorer" 86ft Cat, Bruno Peyron, FRA, 547.3nm. 22.86kts
1999 "PlayStation" 105ft Cat , Steve Fossett, USA, 580.23nm. 24.18kts
2000 "Club Med" 110ft Cat, Grant Dalton, NZL, 625.7nm , 26.07kts
2001 "Club Med" 110ft Cat, Grant Dalton, NZL, 655.2nm, 27.3kts
2001 "PlayStation" 125ft Cat, Steve Fossett, USA, 687.17nm. 28.63kts
2002 "Maiden 2" 110ft Cat, Co-Skippers Adrienne Cahalan, Helena Darvelid and Brian Thompson 694.78nm. 28.95kts
2004 "Orange II" 120ft Cat, Bruno Peyron, FRA, 706.2nm.29.42kts
2006 "Orange II" 120ft Cat, Bruno Peyron, FRA, 766.8nm. 31.95kts
2007 "Groupama 3" 103 ft Tri, Franck Cammas FRA, 794nm, 33.08 kts
Up to 60 foot.
1994 "Primagaz" 60ft Tri, Laurent Bourgnon, FRA, 540nm. 22.5kts
2006 "Mediatis-Region Aquitane" 60ft Cat, Yves Parlier FRA and 5 crew 597.81nm. 24.91 kts
2006 "Brossard" 60 ft Tri, Yvan Bourgnon SUI, 610.45 nm. 25.76 kts
Singlehanded.
1994 "Primagaz" 60ft Tri, Laurent Bourgnon, FRA, 540nm. 22.5kts
2005 "Idec" 90ft Tri, Francis Joyon, FRA, 542.7nm. 22.6kts
2006 "Mediatis-Region Aquitane" 60ft Cat, Yves Parlier FRA, 586.00 nm 24.41 kts
2006 "Brossard" 60 ft Tri, Yvan Bourgnon SUI, 610.45 nm. 25.76 kts
Singlehanded, up to 60 foot.
1994 "Primagaz" 60ft Tri, Laurent Bourgnon, FRA, 540nm. 22.5kts
2006 "Mediatis-Region Aquitane" 60ft Cat, Yves Parlier FRA, 586.00 nm 24.41 kts
2006 "Brossard" 60 ft Tri, Yvan Bourgnon SUI, 610.45 nm. 25.76 kts
Monohull.
1994 "Intrum Justitia" 64ft, Lawrie Smith, GBR, 428nm. 17.83kts
1997 "Toshiba" 64ft, Dennis Connor, USA, 434.4nm, 18.1kts
1997 "Silk Cut" 64ft, Lawrie Smith, GBR, 449.1nm. 18.71kts
2002 "Illbruck" 64ft, John Kostecki, USA, 484nm. 20.16kts
2003 "MariCha IV" 140ft, Robert Miller, GBR, 525.7nm, 21.9kts
2005 "Movistar" 70ft, Bouwe Becking, NED, 530.19nm, 22.09kts
2005 "ABN AMRO ONE" 70ft, Mike Sanderson, NZL 546.14nm, 22.75kts
2006 "ABN AMRO TWO" 70ft, Sebastien Josse, FRA, 562.96 nm, 23.45kts
Monohull, singlehanded
2000 "Union Bancaire Privee" 60ft, Dominique Wavre, FRA, 430.7nm. 17.94kts
2003 "AT Racing" 60ft, Alex Thompson, GBR, 468.72nm. 19.53kts
Monohull, up to 60 foot.
2000 "Union Bancaire Privee" 60ft, Dominique Wavre, FRA, 430.7nm. 17.94kts
2001 "Armor Lux" 60ft, Bernard Stamm, SUI, 467.7nm, 19.48kts
2003 "AT Racing" 60ft, Alex Thompson, GBR, 468.72nm. 19.53kts
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Old 08-11-2007, 03:12   #87
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In 2005 I joined the race around the northern part of the netherlands a 211 NM course with my st. Francis 48 and 250 Monohulls ranging from 30 ft racers up to a Grand Soleil 64 racer built in epoxy empty shell inside with a trained crew of 10 onboard We started one hour after the fleet and finished 2 hours before the first "Half boat " Half way in the race we passed the Grand Soleil on the leeward side as gentlemen do with 18 knots of speed while they where at a pace of around 11 knots
8 persons in the gangway legs overboard , I was sipping my wine and made this nice toasting gesture to them while passing. On arrival in IJmuiden the Race comittee was not present yet because they had thought the race would at least take 2 hours longer
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Old 08-11-2007, 04:36   #88
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You are so right - these are just 24 hour records - theres more different categories, but we have seen JOLI be myopic before. The one I like is how Dame Ellen is 23 days faster round the world in her tri than her mono - same sailor same oceans - different boat. Oh and Joli - on multis we consider having to run motors (canting keel boats) to not really be in the spirit of sailing.

The other interesting thing is Champion of the sea did a run of 467 miles in 1854 - it took over 140 years before a mono got close - thats what you call development. Indeed we had to go thorugh the entire 20th century without any boat catchinhg it.

With all due respect why dont you bugger off and pick a fight somewhere else



24 Hour Distance Records

Outright:

Pre-WSSR
1854 "Champion of the Sea" 225ft Clipper, USA, 467nm. 19.46kts
1984 "Formule Tag" 75ft Tri, Mike Birch, CAN, 512.5nm. 21.35kts
1987 "Fleury Michon VIII" 75ft Tri, Philippe Poupon, FRA, 517nm. 21.54kts
1990 "Jet Services V" 75ft Cat, Serge Madec, FRA, 522.73nm. 21.85kts
1994 "Lyonnaise des Eaux"75ft Tri, Olivier de Kersauson, FRA, 524.63nm. 21.91kts
WSSR Ratified
1994 "Primagaz" 60ft Tri, Laurent Bourgnon, FRA, 540nm. 22.5kts
1994 "Explorer" 86ft Cat, Bruno Peyron, FRA, 547.3nm. 22.86kts
1999 "PlayStation" 105ft Cat , Steve Fossett, USA, 580.23nm. 24.18kts
2000 "Club Med" 110ft Cat, Grant Dalton, NZL, 625.7nm , 26.07kts
2001 "Club Med" 110ft Cat, Grant Dalton, NZL, 655.2nm, 27.3kts
2001 "PlayStation" 125ft Cat, Steve Fossett, USA, 687.17nm. 28.63kts
2002 "Maiden 2" 110ft Cat, Co-Skippers Adrienne Cahalan, Helena Darvelid and Brian Thompson 694.78nm. 28.95kts
2004 "Orange II" 120ft Cat, Bruno Peyron, FRA, 706.2nm.29.42kts
2006 "Orange II" 120ft Cat, Bruno Peyron, FRA, 766.8nm. 31.95kts
2007 "Groupama 3" 103 ft Tri, Franck Cammas FRA, 794nm, 33.08 kts
Up to 60 foot.
1994 "Primagaz" 60ft Tri, Laurent Bourgnon, FRA, 540nm. 22.5kts
2006 "Mediatis-Region Aquitane" 60ft Cat, Yves Parlier FRA and 5 crew 597.81nm. 24.91 kts
2006 "Brossard" 60 ft Tri, Yvan Bourgnon SUI, 610.45 nm. 25.76 kts
Singlehanded.
1994 "Primagaz" 60ft Tri, Laurent Bourgnon, FRA, 540nm. 22.5kts
2005 "Idec" 90ft Tri, Francis Joyon, FRA, 542.7nm. 22.6kts
2006 "Mediatis-Region Aquitane" 60ft Cat, Yves Parlier FRA, 586.00 nm 24.41 kts
2006 "Brossard" 60 ft Tri, Yvan Bourgnon SUI, 610.45 nm. 25.76 kts
Singlehanded, up to 60 foot.
1994 "Primagaz" 60ft Tri, Laurent Bourgnon, FRA, 540nm. 22.5kts
2006 "Mediatis-Region Aquitane" 60ft Cat, Yves Parlier FRA, 586.00 nm 24.41 kts
2006 "Brossard" 60 ft Tri, Yvan Bourgnon SUI, 610.45 nm. 25.76 kts
Monohull.
1994 "Intrum Justitia" 64ft, Lawrie Smith, GBR, 428nm. 17.83kts
1997 "Toshiba" 64ft, Dennis Connor, USA, 434.4nm, 18.1kts
1997 "Silk Cut" 64ft, Lawrie Smith, GBR, 449.1nm. 18.71kts
2002 "Illbruck" 64ft, John Kostecki, USA, 484nm. 20.16kts
2003 "MariCha IV" 140ft, Robert Miller, GBR, 525.7nm, 21.9kts
2005 "Movistar" 70ft, Bouwe Becking, NED, 530.19nm, 22.09kts
2005 "ABN AMRO ONE" 70ft, Mike Sanderson, NZL 546.14nm, 22.75kts
2006 "ABN AMRO TWO" 70ft, Sebastien Josse, FRA, 562.96 nm, 23.45kts
Monohull, singlehanded
2000 "Union Bancaire Privee" 60ft, Dominique Wavre, FRA, 430.7nm. 17.94kts
2003 "AT Racing" 60ft, Alex Thompson, GBR, 468.72nm. 19.53kts
Monohull, up to 60 foot.
2000 "Union Bancaire Privee" 60ft, Dominique Wavre, FRA, 430.7nm. 17.94kts
2001 "Armor Lux" 60ft, Bernard Stamm, SUI, 467.7nm, 19.48kts
2003 "AT Racing" 60ft, Alex Thompson, GBR, 468.72nm. 19.53kts
And which one of these boats do you take the family sailing on for the weekend? Which one of these boats do you own and use as a racer cruiser?
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Old 08-11-2007, 04:39   #89
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Race results usually reflect a ratings correted time so with a good rating a bathtub with a bed sheet could blow away a gunboat.

Mike
Look at elapsed race results, not corrected times. There must be an awful lot of racing in Freemantle? Find out what events will be sailed, read the NOR's and SI's and go pace the fleet. Compare your time to the published finish times and tell us how you did?
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Old 08-11-2007, 04:40   #90
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In 2005 I joined the race around the northern part of the netherlands a 211 NM course with my st. Francis 48 and 250 Monohulls ranging from 30 ft racers up to a Grand Soleil 64 racer built in epoxy empty shell inside with a trained crew of 10 onboard We started one hour after the fleet and finished 2 hours before the first "Half boat " Half way in the race we passed the Grand Soleil on the leeward side as gentlemen do with 18 knots of speed while they where at a pace of around 11 knots
8 persons in the gangway legs overboard , I was sipping my wine and made this nice toasting gesture to them while passing. On arrival in IJmuiden the Race comittee was not present yet because they had thought the race would at least take 2 hours longer
Fastcat, did you race the entire 211 miles?
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