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Old 14-10-2007, 15:33   #16
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Thanks Tao,
I will probably put the kids and the women ashore ...(I know that sounds sexist) ...while the boys go kick tires. Perhaps after the charter or before the charter. I would imagine there are things to do ashore for a day or two I guess, depending on which town one is in. My brother and his wife have chartered in the Bahamas before so they know their way around.

I realize the Bahamas are in general bathtub waters. I figure though some experience is better than what I have now, which is none on cruising cats. The Bahamas won't be the only place that I charter. I figure that doing this gradually is the most fun and the safest way of going about it. It won't be any time soon that my wife and I decide on a boat and take off across an ocean. We may not do that at all in fact. I may hire a delivery crew to do that if she decides she does not want to be at sea for weeks and weeks at a time. I kind of hope she does like it though but time will tell. I realize that bouncing around the Caribbean with a new place to moor every night is far different than sailing a boat to the Mediterranean or the South Pacific.

The five areas of the world that I want to see by boat before I get too old is the Caribbean, New Zealand, the South Pacific islands, Australia/Great Barrier Reef and the Mediterranean. The Med is especially appealing because of all the culture, history and the climate. Sailing around the world does not appeal to me.. I don't know why...perhaps of the vast distances (legs) without much to see? I have been to sea enough to know it can get boring at times. Yeah that sounds kinda childish, but its true.

What else drives us to sea other than the curious inner kid who wants to go exploring?

Thanks,
David
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Old 14-10-2007, 15:50   #17
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What else drives us to sea other than the curious inner kid who wants to go exploring?
Yeah, that's the way I see it, too. We always want to see what's around the next bend or over the next hill.

I'm a bit confused, now, David. Is your proposed charter to be in the BVI or the Bahamas? If it's actually the Bahamas, forget everything I wrote about the Drake Channel.

Of course, the best thing would be to charter in both places, perhaps a couple of times each.

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Old 14-10-2007, 16:00   #18
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David,

Tacking up the Sir Francis Drake channel in the BVI when it's blowing will test anything!! Go in January when it's a bit cheaper (shoulder season) but usually blowing like stink. If you want real ocean sailing just keep going but stop before you get to Africa. Go out twenty miles and then run back in. Many companies don't want you to go to Anegada but as far as I know there aren't any restrictions for just sailing out there. Don't charter in the Bahamas, about the only place there for chartering is in Marsh Harbour and they don't have the selection of cats that you'd find in the BVI. St. Francis (the South African cats) has a small place in Georgetown now but I don't think they're chartering any cats there.
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Old 15-10-2007, 07:12   #19
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David,

What you've said you want in a catamaran, performance over amenities, really rules out almost all charter boats. Charter boats are focused on accomodations first and last and at a lower price point to allow the boat to be chartered by as many people as possible at a price comparable to other charter boats. They are not focused on going out in rough seas, lightweight performance is really a risk for a charter boat, and putting things into the design that would a nice to have for a boat that's going to be owned for 20 years isn't a priority when they are only kept in the charter fleet for 5 years. For owner boats, they have different layouts, building methods that are more expensive but also result in much lighter and more performance orientated boats, more durable construction, better quality fixtures, more focus on safety with bigger reserve bouyancy compartments and a better designed galley and storage. Were I you I would find my price point, figure out which boats fit your price point, then contact the factory to find owners in your area who would be willing to allow you to come sailing with them. Most owners are very proud of their boats and would be more than welcoming to someone who wants a similar boat because it's someone "joining the club" so to speak and who will often become a long time friend. You can also ask them about what they need to repair, factory services, etc and find out more without a salesman trying to sell you a boat. If you REALLY want to find out about that particular boat, and the person has a boat to do list (which will only be a million items long) ask to help them out on some of the tasks. Then you'll see every little thing, the good and the ugly. It's sort of like taking a new girlfriend to a gynocologist appointment and staying in the room. PDQ 44 with italian lighting fixtures and a gourmet galley and HUGE storage compartments, an Africancat Fastcat with retractible drive legs, margard lexan and kevlar reinforments, large forward and aft water tight bouyancy tanks instead of births, these are examples of things you just won't find in too many of the more common boats that are found in charter fleets because they simply don't make sense for a charter boat but could be considered extremely nice to have for safety and performance on an owner designed boat. I'm not saying you can't find a charter boat that can be circumnavigated, or have performance, but it wasn't the reason the designers of those boats were making them.

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Thanks Tao,
I will probably put the kids and the women ashore ...(I know that sounds sexist) ...while the boys go kick tires. Perhaps after the charter or before the charter. I would imagine there are things to do ashore for a day or two I guess, depending on which town one is in. My brother and his wife have chartered in the Bahamas before so they know their way around.

I realize the Bahamas are in general bathtub waters. I figure though some experience is better than what I have now, which is none on cruising cats. The Bahamas won't be the only place that I charter. I figure that doing this gradually is the most fun and the safest way of going about it. It won't be any time soon that my wife and I decide on a boat and take off across an ocean. We may not do that at all in fact. I may hire a delivery crew to do that if she decides she does not want to be at sea for weeks and weeks at a time. I kind of hope she does like it though but time will tell. I realize that bouncing around the Caribbean with a new place to moor every night is far different than sailing a boat to the Mediterranean or the South Pacific.

The five areas of the world that I want to see by boat before I get too old is the Caribbean, New Zealand, the South Pacific islands, Australia/Great Barrier Reef and the Mediterranean. The Med is especially appealing because of all the culture, history and the climate. Sailing around the world does not appeal to me.. I don't know why...perhaps of the vast distances (legs) without much to see? I have been to sea enough to know it can get boring at times. Yeah that sounds kinda childish, but its true.

What else drives us to sea other than the curious inner kid who wants to go exploring?

Thanks,
David
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Old 15-10-2007, 07:58   #20
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What I want to know is how did they get that much wind and have seas that smooth? Must be in pretty protected waters.

George
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Old 15-10-2007, 18:15   #21
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Kinda fouled the mono by running down on her IMHO, made her fall off.

I wonder why the mono didn't a have a reaching chute up at that angle...
I don't have a dog in this race as I couldn't afford either boat in a dream.

It was a cool video but clearly the mono was pointing way higher. There is a clear course change downwind by the mono to avoid collision. At the end the mono actually started to cross the cats wake.

No doubt both boats were going way fast.
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Old 15-10-2007, 19:32   #22
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If I was sailing on a lake or protected waters…. Definitely the cat.
But offshore in a storm? …speed isn’t everything
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Old 16-10-2007, 03:35   #23
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If I was sailing on a lake or protected waters…. Definitely the cat.
But offshore in a storm? …speed isn’t everything
The Reichel-Pugh is a racing boat. When you are racing speed is supposed to be pretty much everything, isn't it? And a racing mono is probably not many people's first choice for a storm offshore. I would rather be in the cat.

Having said that, I would expect a $2million cat to beat a mono - pretty much ANY mono. So while the video is impressive, I liked Tnflakbait's video of his 1964, 33ft CSK, sailing at or very close to windspeed. ( ) The ability to actually sail, and sail well in light air is what appeals to me about multi's.
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Old 16-10-2007, 04:30   #24
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That is just so impressive.

No - wait - I see the light I would much rather be on the mono hanging over the rail, yes thats the life for me. But sorry there is only 4 of us so we cant take the mono out today have to find 6 more crew
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Old 16-10-2007, 18:17   #25
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What I want to know is how did they get that much wind and have seas that smooth? Must be in pretty protected waters.

George
No fetch. Thats how they break sailing speed records as well. Put the boat right next to a weather shore.
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Old 20-10-2007, 04:12   #26
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Nice Video to watch , Peter Johnstone builds great cats at a reasonable price. I know what I am talking about $ 2.400.000 is not a lot for a cat of that quality built in prepreg carbon fiber. I know you can get cats in the same size for about 60 % of this prize but look at the quality of these , and double the weight , half the performance.
He definately fills a niche in the Market with the 66 and 48 ft gunboat

Getting speeds like this is no problem with a performance cruising cat,you have to watch and hold your lines .
With My St Francis 48 I have on many occasions sailed well over 22 knots but always on flat water. With the Fastcat 435 my top speed was 26.9 knots also on flat water and 33 knots of wind 100 degrees app.
With the Green Motion version we expect top beat that wit 2 to 3 knots for 2 reasons . 15 % less weight and no resistance from saildrives etc.
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Old 21-10-2007, 13:36   #27
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Nice Video to watch , Peter Johnstone builds great cats at a reasonable price. I know what I am talking about $ 2.400.000 is not a lot for a cat of that quality built in prepreg carbon fiber. I know you can get cats in the same size for about 60 % of this prize but look at the quality of these , and double the weight , half the performance.
He definately fills a niche in the Market with the 66 and 48 ft gunboat

Getting speeds like this is no problem with a performance cruising cat,you have to watch and hold your lines .
With My St Francis 48 I have on many occasions sailed well over 22 knots but always on flat water. With the Fastcat 435 my top speed was 26.9 knots also on flat water and 33 knots of wind 100 degrees app.
With the Green Motion version we expect top beat that wit 2 to 3 knots for 2 reasons . 15 % less weight and no resistance from Saildrives etc.
FastCat435,
What type of mechanical propulsion then? A Saildrive is essentially an I/O but through the hull instead of through the transom. I am not fond of I/O's because of the complexity and the potential for water contamination/damage. While hauled out, I have seen the lower units of Saildrives taken apart frequently enough to know they have serious problems.

Are Johnstone's 62 foot carbon hulls or e-glass/Kevlar hulls priced at $2.4 mill? That would be outrageously expensive for a Kevlar hull it seems.

I'm curious, what percentage weight savings do you generally get between identical hulls built in Kevlar/e-glass versus carbon fiber?

Is there a rough formula for determining weight savings versus speed increase?
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Old 21-10-2007, 14:19   #28
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Quote:
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FastCat435,
What type of mechanical propulsion then? A Saildrive is essentially an I/O but through the hull instead of through the transom. I am not fond of I/O's because of the complexity and the potential for water contamination/damage. I have seen the lower units of Saildrives taken apart in boatyards enough to know they have problems.

Are Johnstone's 62 foot carbon hulls or e-glass/Kevlar hulls priced at $2.4 mill? That would be outrageously expensive for a Kevlar hull it seems.

I'm curious, what percentage weight savings do you generally get between identical hulls built in Kevlar/e-glass versus carbon fiber?

Is there a rough formula for determining weight savings versus speed increase?
Hallo David

I have developed a electric underwater motor that is retractable and hangs under the bridgdeck. The advantages are obvious
less drag , no chance of leaks since there are no hull fittings under the water line and the best of all very limited use of the diesel generator because these Motogens regenerate the batteries when necessary. I can send you a list of advantages if you send your e mail addres, around 30 advantages , just one disadvantage , it is more expensive. Roughly 30000.00 usd extra over sail drives.

Our 435 weight around 5200 kilo, in glas , basalt , partly carbon and kevlar.
We could shave of 400 kilo,s if we went to all carbon kevlar.
It would raise the cost of the boat with around 100.000,00 usd
It is possible to order our cats like that but the boat would only go 6 % faster for that high amount of money , 20 % extra usd for 6 % in speed gain
Roughly you can say that for each 10 % less weight the gain in speed is 7 % , pointing will give a slightly lower increase while reaching will be significantly higher, up to 9 % increase in speed we have measured
I have attached a polar based on loaded weights of the 435.
The empty weight of this one used is 5500 and these are actual speeds sailed with this boat and 16 knots of wind

Greetings

Gideon
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Old 21-10-2007, 14:27   #29
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You can have it fast, you can have comfortable, you can have it safe, you can have it cheap.

Pick 3.
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Old 21-10-2007, 14:34   #30
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cheap, fast safe and comfortable

You have got a safe and comfortable boat but not fast or cheap
I have owned a couple of maxim 38 and have been very happy with exception of the performance and the space ,
Actually the Maxim 38 is the reason I started building a new concept catamaran that is fast comfortable roomy and very safe but not cheap
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