Getting your Cat off the dock

[Palarran]

This year I had a good discussion with Yeloya about getting a cat off a dock with a strong wind blowing you on. Today I saw this new

youtube

clip.

What do you think of this guys spring line setup? The wind looks like it was actually directly on his stern instead of beam.

I do it where the spring line runs from a bollard that's located around midship and goes to the forward cleat. I also benefit from prop wash so I turn into the dock. With this same situation except the wind on the beam, I'd put starboard in reverse, port forward, helm towards starboard.

Another small point difference is not using the helm/rudders when doing a rotation. I used to not, and still don't sometimes, but it does help if your rudder is aft of the prop. So more often then not I do use the rudders.

It's a good general video though.

[FamilyVan]

Good video, the spring line seems kind of goofy to me. He should have plenty of power to just shoulder her into the dock, hard to starboard split towards to dock then back away.

I don't really agree with the rudder thing, if they're not necessary, don't use them, but if you need a more aggressive rotation or need to walk her laterally, of course use the wheel.

He could benefit from a big round fender on the bow, it would allow him to shoulder on more aggressively and swing the stern off further before backing away if their was a significant on shore wind.

I have some good cat handling vids, but have no idea how to upload them. Maybe I should figure that out, might be fun.

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[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

Good video, the spring line seems kind of goofy to me. He should have plenty of power to just shoulder her into the dock, hard to starboard split towards to dock then back away.

I don't really agree with the rudder thing, if they're not necessary, don't use them, but if you need a more aggressive rotation or need to walk her laterally, of course use the wheel.

He could benefit from a big round fender on the bow, it would allow him to shoulder on more aggressively and swing the stern off further before backing away if their was a significant on shore wind.

I agree. Same effect, but I keep the bow line to back against as it allows the stern to twist further away.

Dave

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

I have some good cat handling vids, but have no idea how to upload them. Maybe I should figure that out, might be fun.

I think it would be great but of course you'll be subjected to a lot of questions, some valid and some idiotic.

To upload them make a Youtube account, upload them, then link them in a post. The way to link them is copy the address then paste it in the text of the post or hit the link button at the top of the "message" box.

[meirriba]

I usually take off all lines and than go aggressively into the dock. I use both engines and rudders ( do not see any reason why not...).
As to fendering the bow: we use large FLAT fender and not a tubular one. With a tubular fender there is a chance for it to roll away and leave the bow exposed to damage. There will be a crew on the bow with the flat fender in his/her hands (on two painters) and he will position/move the fender as needed during the manouver.

[Franziska]

Hey guys. Here is one.

Alongside on end of Fingerjetty.Very strong wind abeam pushing you onto the dock.
End of jetty has very sharp corner, to add more fun, the channel which you have to turn towards leeward into is 1.5 boatlengths wide.
Nasty rockwall across.

Barely made it with lots of fenders.
Going forward on the jettyside and astern on the other.Than both full ahead.

A line across to the next jetty to windward was not an option.

Out of curiosity, how would you have done it?


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[contrail]

Same way. I usually pivot off the stern, rather than the bow, and use a very big round fender, on which to pivot, which doesn't slide off the stern as it might off the bow. I use a springline very seldom using the jettyside engine as the spring, instead. Saves a lot of linehandling, especially when singlehanding. Not much rudder.

[Palarran]

Here is part 2 of the series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdp8...em-subs_digest

I didn't really get anything out of this one. My only question/observation would be why would you tie a midship spring before a stern line when the wind is coming directly from behind. Maybe it's right, but I'd just tie off the stern and put the outer (port in this case) motor in forward and finish fixing the lines.

[valhalla360]

The rule about keeping the helm centered was to keep things simple for someone learning to handle a twin screw boat.

Most of the time, leaving the helm centered is a good option but if you have need to increase the rate of turn and the rudders are behind the prop, a bit of rudder can be helpful.

Just don't forget that you turned the rudder when that particular manuver is complete.

[sparau]

As a complete credit card captain, first time on a big boat, let alone captain I was docking a leopard 40 in 20-25kn (it was 25-35kn outside) at Hamilton Is.

What is the point in a video showing us how to dock in benign conditions?

Sure, I get the practices are mostly the same but things happen MUCH faster, requiring considerable commitment to controls and I would like to learn about "what if" scenarios. Disaster avoidance type of stuff.

Jeez, the thing did 5.8 knots bare poles downwind and in 35k would lose bow to the wind with both screws opposed at 2700rpm when trying to back down to anchor. The only way to regain control of the boat was to abort anchoring and get the rudder and keels working by forward motion with the engines, not something you could do in a marina.

Seriously, if you want to be educational can't we get some videos of real world handling of these big windage beasts?

Just sayin', the videos were about 20% of my first docking experience, not exactly educational...

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by sparau

As a complete credit card captain, first time on a big boat, let alone captain I was docking a leopard 40 in 20-25kn (it was 25-35kn outside) at Hamilton Is.

What is the point in a video showing us how to dock in benign conditions?

Sure, I get the practices are mostly the same but things happen MUCH faster, requiring considerable commitment to controls and I would like to learn about "what if" scenarios. Disaster avoidance type of stuff.

Jeez, the thing did 5.8 knots bare poles downwind and in 35k would lose bow to the wind with both screws opposed at 2700rpm when trying to back down to anchor. The only way to regain control of the boat was to abort anchoring and get the rudder and keels working by forward motion with the engines, not something you could do in a marina.

Seriously, if you want to be educational can't we get some videos of real world handling of these big windage beasts?

Just sayin', the videos were about 20% of my first docking experience, not exactly educational...

Totally agree.

Maybe the reason we don't get those videos is the pressure is too high to worry about videoing technique.

As an FYI, though off topic, when anchoring in moderate wind I've started to do as the French and let the bow's get blown off the wind. We lay out a lot of chain then slowly start to let the tension bring the bow's back into the wind, which also set's the anchor. If the wind is very strong, I focus on just keeping the bows into the wind while letting out the chain.

[sparau]

Originally Posted by Palarran

Totally agree.

Maybe the reason we don't get those videos is the pressure is too high to worry about videoing technique.

As an FYI, though off topic, when anchoring in moderate wind I've started to do as the French and let the bow's get blown off the wind. We lay out a lot of chain then slowly start to let the tension bring the bow's back into the wind, which also set's the anchor. If the wind is very strong, I focus on just keeping the bows into the wind while letting out the chain.

Yes, my videographers were all to scared/busy to do their job

Regarding the off topic let the bow get blown off the wind, the Leopard 40 has the anchor off the front of the bridge deck rather than the cross beam so even 20degree off centre and I was worried about contacting chain onto hulls in the strong conditions. I think the only answer is to do it very fast using rudders also

[admiralslater]

I use this system off both the stern and the bow depending on the wind. The beauty of it is that it works everytime in just about any wind and with complete control. The only limitation is the ability of the engines to push the stern/bow out. It would have to be blowing a gale for that to be the case. I use a large ball as a fender.
I have refined my system based on the wind, if the wind is up I use a much longer spring line, also when you put it in gear to back/drive out you need to give it a good shot of throttle to get initial way on.
I enjoy the fact that if something is not quite the way I like it I can stop and wait. Another advantage is that you can leave the dock with all the crew onboard.
As far as the video is concerned there was enough wind to demonstrate the technique .It works the same way in all wind strengths.
When on my own I put a loop on the dock cleat in such a way that it slips off on its own.
The biggest advantage of this method is that it makes you look professional.

[Cavalier MK2]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Hey guys. Here is one.

Alongside on end of Fingerjetty.Very strong wind abeam pushing you onto the dock.
End of jetty has very sharp corner, to add more fun, the channel which you have to turn towards leeward into is 1.5 boatlengths wide.
Nasty rockwall across.

Barely made it with lots of fenders.
Going forward on the jettyside and astern on the other.Than both full ahead.

A line across to the next jetty to windward was not an option.

Out of curiosity, how would you have done it?


Sent from my C6603 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Easy, anchor out and bring the dinghy in. Much less expensive.....but I have been in that situation and I toss my least favorite Danforth over the side and pull off the dock till the anchor breaks free then engage forward. Easy on a tri with one engine, for a cat use the lee engine if running 2. That affordable anchor can also go over the breakwater if needed but you'll have to use the dink to come back for it.

[admiralslater]

Originally Posted by Franziska

Hey guys. Here is one.

Alongside on end of Fingerjetty.Very strong wind abeam pushing you onto the dock.
End of jetty has very sharp corner, to add more fun, the channel which you have to turn towards leeward into is 1.5 boatlengths wide.
Nasty rockwall across.

Barely made it with lots of fenders.
Going forward on the jettyside and astern on the other.Than both full ahead.

A line across to the next jetty to windward was not an option.

Out of curiosity, how would you have done it?


Sent from my C6603 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

This is my solution, I will put in one note first. After experimenting with the engines I now use both as one, I found that the boat rotates better this way. BTW its cats that I own.

Back to the question at hand. Since you wanted to go out bow first I would
1 place a large fender as far aft as possible.
2 attach a spring from the stern as far up the dock towards the bow as possible.
3 put both engines in reverse enough to hold the boat but not more.
4 release all lines except the spring.
5 increase throttle until boat rotates out far enough to allow you to clear what you need to clear.
6 put engines in forward and then release spring not the other way around. Use enough power to get steerage.
As for the sharp corner that is where twin screws pay just don't stop the boat from moving forward or the wind will catch you.
That's what I would do. Any other takes on this