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Old 16-02-2016, 15:27   #1
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Gemini model differences

Hi Gemini owners. I recently walked thru a 105mc. As much as I love the layout I just don't know if I would feel comfortable taking her beyond sight of land. I keep reading that the 3000 has the most bridgedeck clearance. Can anyone elaborate on more attributes or differences between the 3000 or 3200 vs the newer models, please?
The deck seemed to flex, a lot. This 105 has a good deal of deferred maintenance going on, so I cannot form an accurate opinon.
Also, it seemed the hull and sole was about a 1/4". It just felt so flimsy.
The bulkhead where the mast attaches seems solid, but the rest made me squirm a little.

Knowing the success and contentment CatnAbout (3000) has mentioned, per L38, it makes me wonder if the older models are better built. I am aware of the Smith family making the transataltic. I also know a couple who also made that trip, who were eager to rid of their 105.

One day I hope to attain an affordable cat. The Prout Quests (31/33) have been on my radar, but the older gems sure look good (speed and layout) if the build quality is better than the new models or reinforcements can be made.

So opinions please!

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Old 17-02-2016, 04:59   #2
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Re: Gemini model differences

The newer models are generally stronger thru design but you will see more flex than an old mono lead bomb where weight is largely irrelevant. We have a 3400 and I'm a little too large but no problems with me walking around on deck over the 9 years we've owned valhalla. I don't climb onto the doghouse top but everywhere else I go without a thought.

The basic layout hasn't really changed but construction and a few key features have.

Key model changes:
- 3000: Has stern hung rudders and a compression post thru the dinet table.
- 3200: Moved mast up so it sits over the structural wall ahead of the dinet. Still has stern hung rudders.
- 3400: Added aft steps and underhung rudders that come up if they ground.
- 105: Totally new molds both hulls and deck but otherwise similar layout. (several sub-models of the 105 exist)
- Legacy: Similar interior layout but twin inboards taking a completely different design phylosophy.

One problem you will have is the manufacturer "evolved" the design and so from one boat to the next of the same model, you may see design changes.

Obviously, depends on what you are refering to when you say "out of sight of land".

If interested, our 3400 is for sale in Michigan.
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Old 17-02-2016, 10:18   #3
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Re: Gemini model differences

I owned a 105Mc for around 10 years. Several offshore trips, Cape May/New England, one Bahamas trip and the rest on the Chesapeake Bay. Some bad weather but this boat was structurally sound and reliable for coastal sailing with my only major complaint being the "drive leg from hell" which maybe was sort of OK ,as time heals all wounds according to Shakespeare. No basis to compare build quality with older models but the 105Mc had distinct design improvements .


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Old 17-02-2016, 15:27   #4
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Re: Gemini model differences

Which 105 models have rudders that are hung beneath the hull and which have rudders that are attached to stern that can me manually raised for beaching?

Also, where are the controls to raise/lower the centerboards?
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Old 17-02-2016, 17:17   #5
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Re: Gemini model differences

The 105Mc rudders kick up off the stern. The centerboard controls are in each hill, amidship, close to the outboard side.
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Old 17-02-2016, 20:27   #6
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Re: Gemini model differences

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Originally Posted by lindabarzini View Post
Which 105 models have rudders that are hung beneath the hull and which have rudders that are attached to stern that can me manually raised for beaching?

Also, where are the controls to raise/lower the centerboards?
The underhung kick up rudders started with the 3400 and al 105's have them.

Even the transom hung rudders can be retracted for beaching (3000 & 3200)

On all models, the centerboards are operated from in the hulls. There is a special wrench to lock them and you use a standard winch handle to raise or lower them.

Rudders 3400 & 105, have two control lines at the stern. One pulls the rudder up and the other pulls the other pulls it down.
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Old 18-02-2016, 09:32   #7
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Re: Gemini model differences

Only problem with Gemini is as they get longer the beam stays the same making the length to beam ratio worse
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Old 18-02-2016, 19:43   #8
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Re: Gemini model differences

Hi Guys,

Thank you for your responses and details.
I am aware of those changes Valhalla, thank you though.
I guess I am trying to find out if the 3000 or 3200 were an overbuilt version like so many other boats that are the first model and with coming off of the 60's/70's overbuilt days.

My partner also had a hard time getting over the fact that when he walks around on it he feels the floor or deck moving around. Is this normal?

The owner of this Gemini is looking to fix her up and sell. Can anyone suggest some reinforcements that may make her more solid and less noisy?

Jack, knowing the issues of the drive leg (some prout owners have the same complaint) and payload sensitivity it makes me open to these older outboard models.
O/Bs have certainly become more popular.

Not looking to do any crossings, but I know the Caribbean can get nasty and I hear central america has its pockets too.
I've read a lot of comments about people saying their gemini neighbors are often dock queens or day sailors only. Any of you have an idea of the percentage out there actively cruising?

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Old 18-02-2016, 20:25   #9
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Re: Gemini model differences

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Originally Posted by 805gregg View Post
Only problem with Gemini is as they get longer the beam stays the same making the length to beam ratio worse
Then it's a good thing the length hasn't increased in over 20 years (and even then is was very modest difference with the same size rig when it did change)
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Old 18-02-2016, 20:37   #10
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Re: Gemini model differences

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Originally Posted by Cherise View Post
Hi Guys,

Thank you for your responses and details.
I am aware of those changes Valhalla, thank you though.
I guess I am trying to find out if the 3000 or 3200 were an overbuilt version like so many other boats that are the first model and with coming off of the 60's/70's overbuilt days. No, actually the opposite. At each model they became stronger but with catamarans they have always been weight sensitive.

My partner also had a hard time getting over the fact that when he walks around on it he feels the floor or deck moving around. Is this normal?Pretty much but I'm similar weight to your average NFL lineman ad it's not proven to be an issue and I've not heard of others having an issue.

The owner of this Gemini is looking to fix her up and sell. Can anyone suggest some reinforcements that may make her more solid and less noisy?Never heard of anyone bothering. What noise are you talking about?

Jack, knowing the issues of the drive leg (some prout owners have the same complaint) and payload sensitivity it makes me open to these older outboard models.
O/Bs have certainly become more popular.If you go onto the Yahoo gemini group, there is an ongoing debate. While we wouldn't rule out a boat with the driveleg, we definitely prefer the outboard.

Not looking to do any crossings, but I know the Caribbean can get nasty and I hear central america has its pockets too.
I've read a lot of comments about people saying their gemini neighbors are often dock queens or day sailors only. Any of you have an idea of the percentage out there actively cruising? Probably not much different than most boats but if anything probably get a little more use (we've noticed the more expensive the boat the less it gets used...for any brand or model). We've done the great loop and now of several others who have done it. Very popular running the ICW. Tons of them travel to the Bahama's and Keys where they are ideal for slipping thru shallow waters other boats can't get into. While there is debate if they are ocean capable, I know of several that have crossed oceans.

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As with all boats, there are trade offs but the volume out there cruising proves its a good balance.
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Old 18-02-2016, 21:42   #11
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Re: Gemini model differences

Val, what did you move onto (you said your 3400 is for sale)?

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Old 18-02-2016, 22:07   #12
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Re: Gemini model differences

To confirm, ALL Geminis can have about a 1.6 foot draft and be beached if you lift the centerboards, drive leg (stilette or OB), and rudders?

Going to wind with the centerboards down, the draft becomes 5.6 feet or so?

Are there any differences between the 105M and 105MC besides the interior design?
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Old 19-02-2016, 08:50   #13
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Re: Gemini model differences

Anybody know the lengths and beams of the various Gemini models?
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Old 19-02-2016, 09:24   #14
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Re: Gemini model differences

I believe the Mc has a taller mast, more sail area, and screecher track option. I think around 2004 they went to foam core centerboards.


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Old 19-02-2016, 09:42   #15
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Re: Gemini model differences

if I were in the market for a Gemini, I'd go get a Tomcat. Saw them at Miami, was impressed.

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