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Old 23-09-2008, 18:01   #1
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Question Gemini Costs and Comparisons

I am fairly new to sailing, but will have a few years under my belt when I am finally able to get out there and start cruising.

In my searches for a boat (can't buy yet, have to wait until house is sold) I have seen a few mono's that seem nice. Then I began reading on mono vs multi aspects and a lot of the things about the cat's appealed to me.

In particular, the Gemini 105M seems about perfect for me.

I have one main problem with this. Cost.

I only expect to have $150,000 in the bank after selling my house/vehicles/etc. I would be a LOT more comfortable with 80 grand in the bank after buying/outfitting my boat than I would be with 40 grand. I do plan on supplementing that by working about 2 days a week on the internet while down there but I would still be a lot more comfortable with a big nest egg in case something bad happened. Even the mono's I was looking at were more in the 50-70 range rather than 100 grand. Most of the Gemini 105M's I've seen wander somewhere around 100 grand. After that plus outfitting a LARGE bit of my cruising kitty would be gone.

Solutions: Not that sure here. Maybe looking at an older Gemini 3400 or 3200? I was thinking of doing some passage making on the 105M to the Pacific Islands like Hawaii and Tahiti after getting a few years experience coastal cruising. While most of what I will be doing is coastal cruising (and I've heard the 105 is probably the most perfect thing on the water for that,) most of what I've read says this is doable on the 105M but I have not heard anything about the 3400's.

Is it maybe possible to pick up a 105M that isn't a wreck for 80 grand or so? Or should I be looking at older Gemini's only? Or is a multihull just too rich for my blood?

Thanks to all in advance!

-J
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Old 23-09-2008, 20:44   #2
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Plenty of Gemini's under 80k out there...

We have a 33' mono and with a 1 year old addition we would like to transition to a Gemini Cat. We're pretty much dead broke, but I still look. I've seen plenty of great gemini's under 80k. If I had my druthers, I'd look for a '98 or newer due to the changes. But you can find Gemini's as low as 40k on Yachtworld. Especially with the outboard option, new sails and a new outboard are far cheaper than a 100k boat.

Best Luck,

JC
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Old 23-09-2008, 23:14   #3
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I don't have firsthand experience with the Gemini, but I've heard it described by those who do as "lightly built" and "not for blue water cruising." It might be an undeserved reputation, but it sure seems to be a pretty broad consensus. Certainly worth looking into.
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Old 24-09-2008, 06:42   #4
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Anathema, the Gemini is rather lightly built and rigged for water sailing">blue water sailing. Might I suggest that, with your budget and stated intentions you consider a Prout or Catalac? Both were very solidly built, are proven blue water boats and, if a little less 'modern' in appearance, are available in your price range.

Brad
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Old 24-09-2008, 08:09   #5
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I can't say firsthand...

But the Gemini's have crossed oceans and there is currently an early 1990's boat for sale in the lesser antilles having sailed from Florida listed on craigslist with photos for less than 40k.

I compared to Catalac and the price difference is significant for the same size.

Another thought- get into the cheapest boat you can for a few years of coastal cruising to really get a handle on what you really NEED from experience. I wish someone had told me that (not that I would have heeded the advice) when we were buying our boat.

I harken back to the age old adage, "Go sooner than later".

Finding a boat is half the fun anyways.
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Old 24-09-2008, 08:13   #6
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Thanks for the Replys guys.

The only reason I thought of the Gemini as a blue water boat is..it is listed on the list of blue water cats on mahina, and there are a few people who have posted saying they did blue water crossings. But if they aren't I can look at other options I don't mind so much how it looks as how it performs.

Since I am not buying JUST yet it is no big deal, but another downside is almost all of the Prouts and Catalacs are in Europe. Couple in places like Florida though! Bit of a road trip but doable. Somewhere on the west coast would be ideal.

After switching my search to Cats its clear there sure are a lot less of them than Monos
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Old 24-09-2008, 09:04   #7
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Mostly it is the sailor, and not the boat that determines what goes where. You can buy a mono 35ft +or -, and keep lots of money for the kitty. Or you can get what you want. Especially if you know you can still earn money along the way.

I met a couple who sailed their Gemini from South Africa to St. Maarten. Maybe buying the mono will get you some forgiving experience, and you can later buy the cat. Some get out there, and realize it is not all slick magazine photo ops. Some of it is tough going......BEST WISHES in making the right purchase to pursue your desires....i2f
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Old 24-09-2008, 09:51   #8
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How much sense does it make to decide now what you are going to want in a vessel years from now? Quit day dreaming and go sailing! Spend some of that nest egg on a charter and paint some details into that dream scenario from real experience!
But I understand: My generation was infected by a song that won't go away, Glen Campbell's "The Straight life":
Sometimes I imagine myself as a drifter
A seeker of fortune, connoisseur of great wines
Dashin' through meadows of yellow and green
Tryin' to catch the impossible dream
A-leavin' the straight life behind ....
I can just see me on a tropical island
A-ridin' the surf and drinkin' coconut wine
Havin' me fun with the girls in the sand
Chasin' the sun through an innocent land
A-leavin' the straight life behind
Suddenly all my silly thoughts disappear
She comes to me softly with crackers and beer
A-winkin' and blinkin' and blowin' my ear
A-runnin' away with my mind
It's great to be in love, I'm not really thinkin' of
A-leavin' the straight life behind
I'm just playin' a game in my-y mind

Aaaah yes; THAT one.
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Old 24-09-2008, 10:11   #9
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It for sure isn't the heaviest built boat. It is GREAT for coastal cruising and island hopping the Bahamas, Carib, etc... It also is safe boat for blue water cruising with plenty making the trip from the west coast to Hawaii, as well as at least one doing a circumnavigation.

Around the world on SLAPDASH

Are there boats better suited for a circumnavigation? Sure. But they do and are crossing oceans safely.
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Old 24-09-2008, 11:44   #10
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gemini

I have an older (91) 3200 and love it! Ya, they are not built 'heavy' but she takes us everywhere we want to go and will hold up to more wind/waves than her crew.

CHeeRS!
-dennis
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Old 24-09-2008, 13:20   #11
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Just so that it is clear, I did not say that the Gemini was incapable of crossing oceans, nor that it was a bad boat. On the contrary, there is a 105 at my marina that performs well, looks great to my eye and has provided the owner with big bang for the buck. It is also showing stress cracks along the deck and the solid bimini can be shaken by hand.

Would I be prepared to cross the Atlantic in a newer one from Africa to the Caribbean, with the prevailing trades after hurricane season? Probably. Would I be prepared to sail one from the US through the Caribbean (again, after hurricane season)? Certainly.

Nevertheless, for someone planning on extended offshore cruising including a crossing of the Pacific, I think that the boat and the rig are a little light. At the stated (or at least, preferred ) budget for Anathema, I believe he is going to end up with an older Gemini which will only compound the issue. In those circumstances, I would still recommend looking at some Prouts and Catalacs which not only have a more solid hull and rig, but have typically held up better over the years.

Another way of looking at it, would be to compare the number of older Prouts that have crossed Oceans and circumnavigated with the number of Geminis that have done the same. The numbers are virtually legion for the Prout (and having successfully made such a passage in one is hardly news to anyone), but for the Gemini (despite having been built in equal if not greater numbers), such a passage is still quite newsworthy. And there may be good reason for that.

Brad
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Old 24-09-2008, 15:00   #12
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The gemini's really aren't that big inside. Would you be better with a 35-40 ft mono at less dollars and get your sea legs for a few years? Then consider a change after you know more what you like?
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Old 24-09-2008, 15:27   #13
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for someone planning on extended offshore cruising including a crossing of the Pacific, I think that the boat and the rig are a little light. At the stated (or at least, preferred ) budget for Anathema, I believe he is going to end up with an older Gemini which will only compound the issue. In those circumstances, I would still recommend looking at some Prouts and Catalacs which not only have a more solid hull and rig, but have typically held up better over the years.

Another way of looking at it, would be to compare the number of older Prouts that have crossed Oceans and circumnavigated with the number of Geminis that have done the same. The numbers are virtually legion for the Prout (and having successfully made such a passage in one is hardly news to anyone), but for the Gemini (despite having been built in equal if not greater numbers), such a passage is still quite newsworthy. And there may be good reason for that. Brad[/quote]

Totally agree. They look good and are a very good coastal boat, with an occasional longer trip, but not for long term cruising.
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Old 24-09-2008, 17:30   #14
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Further... From what I have observed of all 3 boats mentioned, they are all very low bridgedeck clearance.... How much banging can you handle on the 3 week passage to the marquesas? I have observed those boats with "cruising load" and in fact there is little daylight under there at all! Coastal.. Carribbean..no problem. Maybe take a ski boat ride on a choppy day and then ask yourself if you can do that for 3 weeks. Other cats have better clearance,... and thus higher prices.... I love cats, but on a pretty limited budget would likely go mono.
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Old 24-09-2008, 21:09   #15
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Space is not an issue. I can live in a fairly small space, I just wanted to get the best I could for the money and the cats have a lot to recommend them. I thnk if I can find a Gemini 105M for 70 thousand and not have to put a lot of work into it, I will snap it up. I don't plan on doing a lot of blue water sailing, especially at first. Would just be nice to go to the south pac islands.

Yeah it is looking more and more that a blue water mono is what I need/can afford. I have looked at a few, there are some nice Island Packet 31s out there (see I can do small space ) which Mahina lists as blue water capable, but I don't like the iron/cement ballast. I do like the modern cutaway keel though. My favorite keel style.

A Mason 33 is a really nice boat if I can find one in my price range. Most seem to be kind of high but we'll see in a few years.

A PSC 31 crealock or similar too. Anything around there would be nice if I could find one close to ready to sail within my price range.

I am currently putting my smaller power boat up on the market and plan buying a sail boat with the proceeds (smaller 25 foot catalina or something) and sailing the okanagan here in kelowna for the next 3-4 years before I make the plunge.

Cant wait!
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