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Old 27-10-2009, 04:53   #61
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Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
I believe that the newer Geminis are CE certified, if that means anything to you. It doesn't mean it's a boat that you would take around the Horn, but it does say something about build quality and it also says something about the manufacturer that they would go through that whole headache just to be able to market the boat in Europe.
Did you just put the expression "Build quality" and Gemini in the same paragraph?

It may be time for me to revisit this subject and step on a new boat. The last new 105 MC I was on could never..ever.. have been CE certified.

If it's a new boat you're looking for a better choice in roughly the same size is a FP Mahe 36'. Solid... and CE certified. Yes, they're more money and there's a reason why they cost more.

A better used boat would be any Catalac (with dual diesels), Prout, Solaris that's been maintained.
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Old 27-10-2009, 06:13   #62
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Those are all too beamy, and draw too much water for my home area. A Mahe 36 draws almost four feet of water. Hello coral heads.

And it has a beam of just under 20 feet. Goodbye easy to find slips.

The Catalac is okay on the width, but still draws almost three feet. I do like the idea of twin diesels, of course. I haven't found any headroom specs on it, but I am six two, wife is five eleven. I looked at the Catamaran Company's panoramic tour of that boat, and got claustrophobic just looking at the video.

I am sure they are all good boats. And none of them have sold a thousand copies.

I think you're outvoted by the market.
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Old 27-10-2009, 06:54   #63
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Outvoted? What a quaint point of view.

Gemini's are a great coastal / Bahamas boat. It's what they were designed for and they do this very well. They are lightly built by design and in Tony Smith's opinion (not mine) are too lightly built to cross oceans. He did it once and will never do it again.

Yes. some have cross oceans, but so have rowboats. Both exceed their design expectations.
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Old 27-10-2009, 07:08   #64
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Canibul, if extremely shallow draft is a major consideration for your home waters then the Gemini would be a decent choice. As to being "outvoted by the market" - lets face it, GM sold a ton of Vegas in the 70's but that didn't make it better than every car that had less sales.

The Gemini is an attractive package at a relatively low price that actually performs quite well; having said that, the older examples I have seen certainly show their age far more than even much older Catalacs: stress cracks where the deck meets the coachouse and around the (rather flimsy) stanchion bases, flimsy solid Biminis, difficult forward visibility through the main saloon (and two sets of plastic windows - hardly the ideal material, or set-up for a windshield). Note, for example, that the portlights in the British Cats of that era were typically tempered glass (which should never require replacement).

In any event, if what you require is a coastal cruiser with full headroom in the main saloon and draft below 3 feet, then in that price range the Gemini would be a solid choice.

Brad
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Old 27-10-2009, 07:31   #65
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Yes, that's what I keep coming back to. There doesn't seem to be much close competition for the boat in those terms.

I don't wish to cross an ocean again on a boat. Any boat. So that is not really a major criteria for me. Well, possibly the Gulf of Mexico, but even then I suspect I would be doing the equivalent of island hopping and coastal cruising.

Another good point for the Gemini is that there ARE so many of them. The fixes for the maladies seem to be well known and documented. I am familiar with learning a particular piece of hardware's quirks and dealing with it. I own two Land Rover Defenders, for example. I KNOW that if I don't flush the transmission brake drum out with fresh water after driving through salt water, it is going to freeze up in a week or two. Goes with the vehicle.

I am not sure that a $ 150,000 boat ( when new) is the equivalent of a cheap car, but in all my googling and reading, I am not finding many, if any,dissatisified Gemini owners. That tells me something. The dissatisfied people talking about Gemini's seem to all be people who sail something else entirely.

So, what IS the standing headroom in a Catalac? Anyone know? I can't find it.
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Old 27-10-2009, 08:20   #66
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6' 3" in the Catalac 8M and 9M. 6' 5" in the Catalac 10M and 12M.

Comparing a Catalac Catamaran to a Gemini is like comparing a Humvee to a Toyota Corolla. They are completely differnet boats with different design goals.
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Old 27-10-2009, 09:25   #67
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You might be right. There just are not enough late model Catalacs around on the used market to really factor in, though, are there.

Humvee? Are the Chinese building Catalacs??
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Old 27-10-2009, 10:03   #68
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No there aren't any.

My point is that you'd be doing yourself a favor by finding one (if you can) and having a look. They've been compared to Hinckley build quality which is the reason they age gracefully. However, Catalacs aren't the only older Cat that age gracefully. Check out any of the earlier solid glass boats. This is where you'll discover the 'bang for the buck" in buying your first cat.

Of course, the $100000 question is if they've been maintained, yet this is common to all boats.
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Old 27-10-2009, 15:03   #69
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Its not just that I am looking for an 'older cat'. I am looking for a used cat, $100K max, that draws less than 3 ft. and will fit in a 15 ft. standard sized slip. It's to live here in the TCI, be used to sail up north to the Bahamas, and as far south as we choose to go, with hopefully some trips to central america. Two people. No wish to cross anything bigger than the Caribbean. I mean, I could see a possible interest in going from here to Key West to Tortugas to Texas, but that would be when we REALLY ran out of other places to see. Not likely.

Like I mentioned earlier, I keep coming back to Gemini.
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Old 27-10-2009, 18:44   #70
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And here ya go...the best is last...

105mc gemini (Sail) Boats For Sale

Search: -All gemini-

and of course....the Performance Cruising website
Previously Owned
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Old 28-10-2009, 19:59   #71
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We are currently cruising south on our 1996 Gemini. I am sure Brad on Southern Star saw our boat, and has probable seen more. Believe the criticisms of the build qualty of Geminis, they have spider cracks, but I have yet to hear anything about them more serious than that. We love our ouboard equipped Gemini. She sails great, just last week we averaged 9-11 kts running down the Neuse River in NC. I have been really pleased to run across PDQ and Endeavourcat owners,who while not talking down their boats, sang praises for the Gemini.
It's built to a price point, no denying that, but I would buy another in a second (as soon as PCI offers the Yamaha 9.9 option in bays like on the PDQ36).
www.steelestreetoceaneers.blogspot.com

I still think I'd like a Manta 40 or Lagoon 380, but dollar for dollar the Gemini is great (somewhat unbiased, love my boat buy seriously stricken with 2-footitis.).
E-mail me at delmitch2@gmail,cim if you want to discuss the Gemini more.

Brad, when are you getting out of Bath???

We didn't talk much but I'd love to visit you place south to try some kiting there!!!!!

Mark (the "other" bald cat owner at LCM).
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Old 29-10-2009, 08:03   #72
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I'd like to see some comparisons of older vs newer models (80's, 90's, 2000's) and the problems that have arisen and what has been corrected over time. Of course, I could always call Perfomance but I think the owners would be less biased. I'm working toward my first Cat being a Gemini.
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Old 29-10-2009, 15:24   #73
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Originally Posted by Fishman_Tx View Post
I'd like to see some comparisons of older vs newer models (80's, 90's, 2000's) and the problems that have arisen and what has been corrected over time. Of course, I could always call Perfomance but I think the owners would be less biased. I'm working toward my first Cat being a Gemini.
I think you have to pick your price.

Newer is better.
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Old 30-10-2009, 08:15   #74
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Yep, I agree with that, but just for grins it'd be nice to have that info. It would help to know a little of what to expect, and every "year model" has it's quirks. Like which year the hull/bridgedeck joint became a solid single mold layup and not a 2 part joint. I can't afford new and I would like to save what I can on initial outlay, but this would be the item I would like to be able to have in the boat.
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Old 31-10-2009, 05:45   #75
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My Gemini is a 1996, hull 519 (I believe the 105M's started at hull 500).
The Mc is definitely an improvement over the M. Price was a consideration in my purchase, but I also wanted an outboard equipped boat.

If you look at an older M (1996-1998) check to see if it has had the wave slap hull mod done. This was an early design feature of the inside of the hulls, a flat surface sitting about 2" above the waterline. Any small ripples or waves would slap on the underside, very annoying. We had our's modified (basically glass in the gap to the waterline) and it has made a huge difference. The hull mold was changed by PCI in 1998 to eliminate the problem.
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