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Old 06-01-2008, 04:51   #46
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Also Looking at the Fusion!

My Wife and I have also been looking at the Fusion, mainly due to their construction containing no balsa or timber and to their CE certification.
We have been quoted the price of 82,000 Euro plus delivery and any taxes. During the last few years we have done a lot of study looking for the right choice and the thing we have found is that people really underestimate the total price to complete the cheaper kits and the amount of work still too be done.
I remember reading an article around 5-6 years ago in the multihull world from someone that had built another kit brand and they said it took double the time and cost double the amount quoted, so who do you believe!
I don't think you can compare when you haven't built one!
We were told a couple of people are even building another one as their first ones are now being sold for more than they cost to build.
Another bit of interesting news that I have been able to dig up is that they are now built at CMI in Thailand and CMI make some very classy yachts both one off racers and production.
Do your homework and good luck finding the right Catamaran for your lifestyle,.
Anyone doubting whether they build nice boats follow the link.
Hot News!
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Old 06-01-2008, 08:51   #47
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Gofastnutter, Nicely said, I have also had communication with the CEO's of CMI, very interesting and professional company, building some amazing boats.
Are you based in the UK?.
Ian
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Old 06-01-2008, 10:22   #48
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If I look around at builders that produce Hull deck and Bulkheads the cost of these parts completed but not finished normally cost around to 25 % of the total cost of a completed boat. Recently a friend of mine bought an Admiral 38 hull deck and bulkhead for Euro 70.000 while a completed Admiral costs around 290.000,00
I am sure if you finish of the boat yourself it will save a considerable amount of money, Labor in Europe is expensive , Probably around 60.000,00.
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Old 06-01-2008, 10:37   #49
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Gideon, What is the going rate per hour in SA (in USD or Euros) for a professional boat builder to build to a very good standard.
Having said the above what are the going rates for any country if people who live in them know, ie. France, Australia, Italy etc.
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Old 06-01-2008, 11:30   #50
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The rates vary per region but in our factory we pay average wages of 6.00 euro per hour and this is excluding overhead , factory rent etc. just the wage
In western Europe the wages are around 45,00 Euro per hour and Australia /New Zealand around 30 Euro per hour .
The States is around 55.00 USD per hour
All these amounts include all labour combined so plumbers electricians carpenter laminators managers. in other words all production staff
greetings gideon
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Old 06-01-2008, 12:02   #51
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Gideon
So what we are saying, if for example I wanted to build a Fusion 40, I could save on labour alone about EURO 120,000 if I had one built in SA.

Then when finished, sail it back to the UK - how many days would you think it would take and if there were a crew of 3 and me how much would the crew cost.
If it is this viable, could you recommend a good yard as you have several ideas and products that I would like incorporated into the build, ie Tramps, Air Gen etc, etc.
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Old 06-01-2008, 13:46   #52
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Hallo Ireaney
Yes it would be possibe to save that amount , it is my guess that it will 4000 hours to finish off a Fusion 40 .
The cost of the Crew including return flights insurance food and some diesel will be around 14000 euro. or having her put on a steamer around 20000 Euro.
I cannot recommend a yard at this time. We unfortunately for you are very busy being sold out for 3 years and also developiung 2 new models , the all new 405 and the 560.
Good luck and happy sailing
gideon
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Old 06-01-2008, 14:03   #53
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Hi Gideon, My apologies to you, my previous question was a bit insensitive by asking you to recommend a quality boat builder in SA especially when you are a quality boat builder of fast weight concious ocean going Catamarans.
Ideally it would be good to use your company as the builder but I realise you are fully commited until 2011.
How would I find a quality builder in SA if I wanted to build on this way?
Thanks
Ian
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Old 06-01-2008, 14:26   #54
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Why not contact the South African Boat Builders association
Look below.
Before you commit to any builder ask me if he is any good there are better and not so good builders.

Greetings
Gideon
SABBC | South African Boatbuilders Business Council
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Old 06-01-2008, 14:31   #55
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Before you commit to any builder ask me if he is any good there are better and not so good builders.

Greetings
Gideon
SABBC | South African Boatbuilders Business Council
Thanks Gideon, I will probably take you up on your offer, and at the same time hopefully do some business with yourself regarding some products you are marketing so as to make the cats lighter.
Cheers
Ian
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Old 06-01-2008, 18:54   #56
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Oz labour rates...

When I costed getting Boracay fitted out in Sydney I was consistently quoted $AUS70 per hour. I got the impression that they really wanted more.

This, of course, was the bare labour cost.

Tools, rent, power, short work days, smokos, redos, markup, deliveries, head scratching and profit were extra.

Lateness and short shifts were also not included.

I may be very fussy about who I work for and not very good but I'm cheap.
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Old 06-01-2008, 23:53   #57
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Hallo Ireaney

We also have a Marine supply company in Durban that specializes in light weight marine parts ranging from Foam , epoxy,winches, engines props etc
With the items in stock we can build complete boats
name of the company is
rainbow nation marine supply
58 henwood rd
3600 new germany
South Africa
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Old 19-01-2008, 01:31   #58
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Hello Everyone

Just found the Cruisers Forum today - a very interesting and informative site!

This thread caught my attention as we are presently building our first Fusion 40 from a Kit supplied out of the CMI factory. When we first came across the concept we thought it looked like a pretty neat concept - and first hand experience in building one of these boats has done nothing to dispel that thought - it really is a great system that can save a lot of time in the overall build process. Especially for a home builder.

As an independent boat building company with experienced management that has built boats using different build processes I guess you could say we might know what we are talking about.

A lot of 'spin' is put on 'the price of a kit' 'how easy it is to build' 'how few hours it takes' etc. But there are so many variables in building a boat of this size that it is often difficult to really compare 'apples' with 'apples'. But during our time building boats one point has cropped up again and again and it is a point that far too many people overlook - when building a boat the actual hours should also include things like cleaning up at the end of a day, running down to the store to get those consumables and items that invariably run out, not to mention the additional hours of friends who invariably need to help at some of the stages.

Another very important point; even home builders or people that have retired or live a life of leisure still have to put a 'value' on their time. Something which is often missing from the 'estimated price to build a boat' quoted by a lot of todays designers and sales people and thus seemingly making prices look artificially low and misleading.

Hey, sorry this post has been a bit long and general, but valid points (I think!).
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Old 04-02-2008, 13:19   #59
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Interesting to here the different veiws on the Fusion 40 but I know which camp I am in.
I joined a partnership in a F40 and am definately happy with what we have so far. The stick is yet to go in, but the fitout is progressing well.

A couple of pics for those who are interested.
Fusion 40 - a photoset on Flickr
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Old 04-02-2008, 13:52   #60
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Hi JB, Great pictures of 'Kalani', you have made an Englishman very jealous.
Please keep us posted of how you get on with her and how she performs as I am very interested in getting an F40. I am hoping to see the first European version finished in May this year in France as Oz is a long way to go to view a boat for the week-end.
Cheers Ian
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