Frustration getting a straight answer on pricing

[ka4wja]

Owen,
My first reaction was one of astonishment...and then I thought...."hey, I can get into the sails brokering business, and make a LOT of $$$"....

But, seriously....
1) You need to get the idea of buying sails from a yacht manufacture or yacht dealer, completely out of your mind!!!!

Originally Posted by owenrms

Then we run into some crazy math. The Code 0 in Euro is 9680. East coast says $12,100 and West coast says $15682. No logic I can come up with explains this and all I get is very vague answers from both dealers.
Does anyone have any advice please

There is NO reason at all to buy sails from a boat manufacturer or boat dealer....
There are many reasons not to....
Not the least of which are:
a) you will save a LOT of $$$$
b) you will get better sails
c) you will get the sais that meet your needs
d) you will get professional sailmaker advice for free


My advice is to call Mack Sails, in Stuart, FL.....(I've been doing business with them for many years, and am a completely happy/satisfied customer!)
772-283-2306
Mack Sails Sailmakers for mainsails, headsails, genoas, spinnakers, lazy jacks

Ask for Travis or Colin (the Mack brothers that own Mack Sails), tell 'em you're buying a Lagoon 450, and want some prices on some sails (or even just your Code Zero)....and/or ask 'em for some advice on what sails you require, based on the sailing that you'll be doing...

You will NOT be disappointed!!!




2) Now as for the other prices / other items....
If they are anything like the Code Zero, then my advice would be to get as little as possible from Lagoon!!
Seriously, I realize that if you're buying a new boat, you won't be buying a "shell" and then go back and install/outfit everything / every system (of course not)!
So, things like engines, gensets, anchor windlasses, electric winches, aux pumps, refrig/freezer, etc. (and maybe Air Cond), depth and speed transducers, as well as ALL the wiring for marine electronics, etc., are of course things that the factory should be installing / commissioning....

One area that I would strongly encourage you to ask about a "factory option" or "factory upgrade" would be refrigeration / freezer insulation!!!!
This is a oft-overlooked feature, and one that is 100 times easier to do upon construction, versus afterwards!!!
You will NEVER regret spending the extra $$$ on upgraded refrigeration/freezer insulation....assuming that they actually do provide improved/upgraded insulation...(unless your sailing plans are for Alaska or the North Sea.....everywhere else, you'll LOVE it!!!)

[Not sure what is "standard" vs. "optional" on a Lagoon 450....but in my opinion, most things that are "optional", are probably best sourced / commissioned elsewhere!!!
And, certainly everything on my list below are!!!]

Things like these are best sourced elsewhere:
--- anchors, chain, rode, and snubbers...
--- aux running rigging...
--- optional sails, and associated rigging...
--- docklines, fenders, chafe guards, etc..
--- optional shore power cords...
--- optional shore power charger...
--- optional hi-output alternators...
--- house batteries / optional house batteries...
--- most marine electronics...(except for depth and speed transducers), especially radios, etc.
--- TV's, DVD players, computers, Wi-Fi routers, etc...
--- solar panels, controllers, etc...
--- davits...hoists...
--- canvas, bimini tops, etc.
--- optional safety gear, liferafts, MOB pole, etc..
--- dinghies, outboards, etc...
--- water filters....
--- watermakers...
--- lee boards / lee cloths...

All of these are much better sourced / installed / commissioned elsewhere...sometimes by professionals that are experts in these areas, and sometimes by yourself!!
In addition to saving money, you will far superior items/systems, and will get them installed/commissioned far better, and you will learn a LOT about your boat and all of these items/system in the process!!!


Again, one area that is an exception is frig/freezer insulation....I would strongly encourage you to ask about a "factory option" or "factory upgrade" would be refrigeration / freezer insulation!!!!
This is a oft-overlooked feature, and one that is 100 times easier to do upon construction, versus afterwards!!!
You will NEVER regret spending the extra $$$ on upgraded refrigeration/freezer insulation....assuming that they actually do provide improved/upgraded insulation...(unless your sailing plans are for Alaska or the North Sea.....everywhere else, you'll LOVE it!!!)



3) If you can afford a new Lagoon 450, you can probably arrange enough Euros in an account to pay for the whole transaction in Euros...you may gain a few percent, or you may loose a few percent, as the exchange rate changes, but that's up to YOU....you are not at Lagoon's mercy, just your own luck and timing...

BTW, today's exchange rate (with the exception of the little dip in March of this year) is the lowest in a LONG time/more than 10 years...
$1.0953 to 1 Euro....

Heck, for what a Lagoon 450 goes for, you can hire an agent, and pay for everything in Euros....and probably save enough to do a complete outfit and commissioning effectively for free....

But, of course that will take some effort....so you'd have to figure the cost of your time, etc...






4) Finally....
Although, I find most "options" from the factory to be inferior and way too expensive....I do understand that you may find getting factory-installed "options" to be good for you....
If you are not going to be able to oversee or do any of the work yourself....or if you do not wish to rely on professionals / experts to suggest/install/commission things....or if you require a complete "sail-away" package upon delivery (such as you are time limited, sailing/cruising immediately, etc..)....


But, excluding those exceptions, ordering as few "options" as possible from the factory, is almost always best!!





Well, those are my thoughts...hope they help...

Fair winds...

John

[Arthur Garfield]

John, KA4WJA-entirely spot on ! Great post for OP.

Euro expected to be at PARITY with USD within a year-set price in EUROS.
Buy through Carribian dealer for sure.
Stick to your guns -they're trying to chump you!
Easily %25 negotiation lower price.
John, KA4WJA has great advice.depends on your fitting out desire or not and time to SAIL(we're not getting any younger).If you go the John, KA4WJA route,find a great AGENT to fit out for you-worth the commission.

Personally I would make stink about US dealers money grubbing evasive BS to corporate.Matter of fact,I'd prolly deal direct with HQ for deal.


All the Best

[Kowloon Breeze]

Not really marine related, but any reasonable bank will offer you an Fx forward contract allowing you if you so wish to lock today's exchange rate usd/eur for a payment in 6 months or one year. In today's low exchange rate environment cost of the fx forward contract should be minimal.


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[owenrms]

Hi everyone - thank you for the multiple answers and advice. I love how this forum works!! I am taking all the advice given and re-grouping

[Just_cruizen]

I'd put an offer in Euro with all the inclusions you want at an Ex La Rochelle price. I'd keep it over there or the Caribbean for a season then import it. By then you will have had considerable depreciation and save on the tax. you can also decide when you want to convert USD to EUR.

[rajsach]

Great thread. I'm going through the same problems right now with a FP dealer. Good to know that I'm not the only one frustrated and confused.


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[jep17]

So far there are three vendors listed for Lagoon at the United States Sailboat Show (Annapolis) October 8 - 12. This might be a good place to meet several vendors face to face.

[sailsw00]

Be aware that if you buy it in the States, there will be duty to pay; not if you buy it out of the country. but tehn you would pay duty on a USED boat if you bring it in later. I don't know what teh new duty is, but used is 2%, I think.
-Steve

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by jep17

So far there are three vendors listed for Lagoon at the United States Sailboat Show (Annapolis) October 8 - 12. This might be a good place to meet several vendors face to face.

yes.. however, just a note.. this particular version of the 450 will not be there.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by sailsw00

Be aware that if you buy it in the States, there will be duty to pay; not if you buy it out of the country. but tehn you would pay duty on a USED boat if you bring it in later. I don't know what teh new duty is, but used is 2%, I think.
-Steve

That's 1.5%.
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...e-into-the-u.s.

[Grateful]

Import duty is 1.5% and I'm not sure that you need to keep it outside of the US for a full season to qualify. I would speak to a customs broker.

BTW, when I brought my boat to Gulfport Mississippi, the US customs there would not let me import it myself - something to do with posting a customs bond. They insisted that I have a customs broker, so plan on at least a few hundred dollars expense there. I don't know if this was a quirk of that local US Customs office, or if you'll find that everywhere.

[alansmith]

Owen, a guy that has that much money for a new Lagoon also understands legally binding contracts. I do not know this for a fact...but, I dare to say the boat is north of a million. I would want a maritime lawyer involved in this situation so that no BS lands on your lap. I think the other posters advice on outfitting holds a lot of common sense. Exchange rates move around quite a bit. Manufacturers are not stupid and in the business of selling products overseas. Dollar strengthening lately and Euro falling is the latest slope. But manufacturers have costs and bottom lines also to maintain. They can move the price of their product to reflect market conditions with competition and money market conditions. The Internet is replete with horror stories of yachts bought and unforeseen problems or expectations not met and very little, if any, recourse for the buyer.


It is a beautiful boat. Not to drizzle on the parade but did you see the lightweight displacement on this boat? Over 30,000 lbs for a 45 footer is a very very very heavy boat. Just saying....

[Lucky Larry]

Owen,

Unless you are getting the pricing information from the East Coast and West Coast dealers on the same day the differences could be based on the ongoing fluctuation in the currencies and the fact that the Lagoon 450S is a new model. Unless you are taking delivery in Europe the price sheet is going to be in U.S. Dollars. The Lagoon 52, 560, and 620 are available in Euros.

The dealer that you buy from should be were you are going to have the boat delivered as they will be responsible for delivery and any warranty work that needs to be done.

I have purchased 3 Lagoons from the dealer in Puerto Rico and highly recommend Atlas Yacht Sales. So much so that I now work with them. I'm not trying to tell you who to buy from but I highly recommend that you first decide where you want to take delivery, and sail for the first several months. You might save a couple of bucks up front but you'll be better off buying from the dealer closest to your initial sailing grounds.

Feel free to send me a PM if you want the Lagoon 450S price sheet. It shows all of the options in U.S. dollars. And I'll be at the show in Annapolis if you want to be introduced to any of the Lagoon Dealers. I'd be happy to assist regardless of where you want to sail.

P.s. I'm probably the only one who actually owns and sails a Lagoon 450.


Lucky Larry

[trifan]

Owenrms - Your dealers remind me of some car dealers I have tried to use in the past. My favorite line is "Let me take this to the sales manager"... kinda sounds like the run it by the manufacturer. What a complete load of crap! They know what the price is, they know what their operating margin is, they know how low they can go. I told one once, shoot me your best price and, when he kept squirming around I got up and walked out. He called me later with a better price and I told him sorry, Charlie, you had your chance.

They understand only one thing: screwing the buyer out of as much money as they can get. Then they sit around the table and brag to each other how much they got.

Cynical? Hell, yes. A VAR (value added reseller) i.e. dealership had better add some value to the reselling or I walk rapidly to the exit. Hopefully you will tell those east coasters to take a hike. Just my opinion, of course.

[sanderkemper]

see here the 2016 price in €


LAGOON 450 S Euro excl. taxes Factory Price

369 750,00 € 4 cabins
365 750,00 € owner version

I have the pricelist if you want