Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-06-2007, 03:21   #16
Registered User

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Boat: 44 foot bruce farr fractional rig
Posts: 165
Images: 12
We've had both types masthead and fractional. Our Farr has a fractional rig - it's fantastic for single handing and makes boat handling very simple. We love it. It also makes for a powerful weapon going to windward. We still have our downwind options open with a masthead halyard for a spiny or geny so downwind speed is not a problem. The larger main is a problem and required us to refit the yacht with proper ball bearing cars and reefing systems had to be beefed up to make reefing a lot easier for 2 handed sailing. She is a big boat to single hand but I can do it and plan to sail the yacht single handed from Australia to New Cal this year. The good thing is that you retain very good mast bend control with a fractional set up reducing the requirement to reef or drop to a smaller headsail etc.

Cheers
__________________

__________________
Southernman
southernman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2007, 06:23   #17
Senior Cruiser
 
schoonerdog's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2004
Location: annapolis
Boat: st francis 44 mk II catamaran
Posts: 1,174
Images: 4
There are a lot of catamarans out there which are relatively heavy boats, the heavier the cat, the less well they can point (A light boat would tend to point 5 degrees higher and make much better speed in light air). Never the less people get those boats because they are more interested in having spacious accomodations than sailing speed. Mast head rigs such as Prout and now Broad blue were choosen because the boat designer believed that the foresail was the most "controllable" sail and thought that having a smaller main led to less downward pressure on the rig and more control in higher winds with a smaller main and more easily furled foresail providing the majority of the power. In the older prouts it allowed the mast to be moved further aft where it could be more easily reached from the cockpit. The prout 45 and continued that emphasis of safety by having foreward water tight compartments which can only be accessed through water tight doors (no hatches, doors bolted down). I can't think of any other boat that made completely dedicated keel to deck large water tight compartments. Prout and Broad Blue was also a heavier boat because they liked the safety of a harder and heavier core and more heavy fiberglass throughout. Last broad blue and prouts had wonderful joinery. Absolutely beautiful work in relatively heavy wood. So you see it's a different design philosophy, safety above speed, comfort above performance. Frankly I would still want to have a fractional rig because I think the ability to tack well is a safety concern, but you can see the different tracks of thought. Does my boat perform better? Yes. Is Broad Blue more comfortable and more resistant to going over? Yes. Would my rig be more prone to failure in high winds with a full main? Yes. Both of our boats have large water tight compartments, which relatively few do which is again a sacrifice of space for safety. I know my boat is completely safe offshore, but it's not as comfortable as a broad blue and I would need to be a bit more concerned with reefing earlier than a broad blue. But if I could have afforded a Broad Blue, I certainly would see the relative advantages.
__________________

schoonerdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2007, 05:19   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 192
Ok, here are some pro's and cons:

As far as I can see, with any fractional rig and the apparent wind behind the beam, you are goind to get chafe. Fractional rigs have swept back spreaders, which will chafe the mainsail if let out too far, and the mainsail blankets the foresail anyway.

So, (as Maxingout says elsewhere) for downwind routes - trade wind sailing especially - a 'no--stress' sailing option is to pack away the mainsail, and just use the head sail. As a fractional rig only has a small headsail, then you need another one (gennaker, spinnaker etc) to help.

With a masthead rig, you normally have a larger foresail and probably in-line spreaders, so more (easily handled) downwind power, less chafe.

(And the BB, at least, points as well as any other mini-keel cat, and can deploy two large furling headsails)

Finally, a large roach, fully battened fractional rig mainsail is a HEAVY thing to have aloft - you start to need electric winches or multipart mainsheet tackles. (and try reefing THAT without luffing up, and increasing the apparent wind!)

My opinion: for in-shore, busy areas, (and charter use) a fractional rig is easier to tack and probably appropriate. For longer distances, and where you cannot predict the weather, the masthead/BB approach is better.
__________________
Moby Dick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-06-2007, 13:41   #19
Registered User

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Boat: 44 foot bruce farr fractional rig
Posts: 165
Images: 12
Good points Moby Dick - agree with you on the main being bigger and harder to handle but it does depend on the size of yacht we are talking about here. Anything less than 40 ft I don't think you would have any problem raising or lowering with bat cars by yourself. On our new 44 footer I can do it by myself but it takes a while. Taking a reef is straight forward but you need to have very well sorted systems - ie good autopilot if single handing, and a bat car set up.

Having had both types of rigs, I MUCH prefer the fractional rig. It's more flexible by far and as for going downwind we tend to use a small storm spinny which cannot overpower the boat - besides most cruising downwind sailing is done in the trades and generally the trades give you heaps of notice if the wind is going to increase (wave height changes etc) Chafe - I have not had problems as there is no way I'd use the main when running directly downwind. It's just worth too much to waste by chafing it! Our new yacht is a 3 year old Farr First 44.7 so as you could appreciate the rig is quite large for single handing. My opinion may change if I was not so young and fit but then electric winches become an option!!

Cheers
__________________
Southernman
southernman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2007, 04:40   #20
Registered User
 
philip van praag's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: uk brighton
Boat: privilege 37
Posts: 181
Images: 18
as i set the question.
we have a 37' privilege and i have spent a short time in a bb 385
we can handle the main resonably well but is hard work in heavy weather so prep early is the motto. down wind we are careful not to let the main out to far so it does not rest on the shrouds, and even if we do it bends the batterns and there is no shape to the sail, spiling all the air so no point.

up wind we point well, out performing many monos.
we are curently uk based so sailing is all in the solent area and a good all rounder is esentual.
but do intend to blue water has sparked my intrest and the question.i thought it would be intresting to get some comment on the main engine.
__________________
philip van praag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2007, 05:08   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: cairns australia
Boat: now floating easy37
Posts: 636
Images: 41
my 2 cents for a serious cruiser mast head rocks, for a weekender/racer fractional
sean
__________________
northerncat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2007, 10:19   #22
Registered User
 
philip van praag's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: uk brighton
Boat: privilege 37
Posts: 181
Images: 18
Wink

northerncat would you be so kind as to explain.

when i posted it was to get some detailed feed back
and hopfully better understand the pros and cons.
(why would you tie rocks to your masthead )
still find it odd that the top boats of choice all are fractional rigs (see poll).
__________________
philip van praag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-06-2007, 15:22   #23
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,450
Images: 69
Why do you find it odd? They are all good performing boats. People generally choose their boat and take the rig it comes with - it would be unusual to find someone looking for a specific rig and taking whatever boat it happened to be on.
Fractional rigs work better to windward, and can be as good downwind with the addition of a downwind sail. Catamaran fractional rigs have the advantages that mono frac rigs do, but without some of the disadvantages, like needing to have running backstays.

As I said before, if you take a look at a modern "fractional rig" on a cat, you will see it is really a masthead rig with some additional mast at the top, above the stays. The shrouds and forestay meet at the same height. So in effect it's similar to a masthead rig, with the advantage of extra mainsail area available when required.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2007, 07:59   #24
Registered User
 
philip van praag's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Location: uk brighton
Boat: privilege 37
Posts: 181
Images: 18
its odd in the sense that on any subject in the foram there is loads of opinion pros cons etc, but two thirds of us or more have saling rigs. judging by the posts people are both knowlagble and passionate about the subject of sailing. so why so little thought or comment given to the rig (just an observation).
__________________
philip van praag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2007, 09:28   #25
Registered User
 
Tnflakbait's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Southern California
Boat: CSK, 33' Aita Pe'ape'a
Posts: 338
Images: 7
I think that there is a great deal of thought put into rigs. However If you want a particular boat you don't have much choice. As different as they are, fractional and masthead rigs (on sloops) are far more similar than a sloop and a ketch rig for example. I think number of masts/rig is where you will see far more consideration on the part of the buyer.
__________________

__________________
Tnflakbait is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fractional Rig junohera Monohull Sailboats 7 09-10-2009 17:40
I need advice for a first purchase MrShankmmz Monohull Sailboats 34 16-03-2007 20:39
Fractional Ownership at Another Level ssullivan Off Topic Forum 2 08-01-2007 19:15
fractional sailing Connemara General Sailing Forum 13 03-12-2006 11:38



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:39.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.