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Old 08-01-2010, 16:49   #61
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An FP is NOT a Pinto! That's a really low blow.

Now, this boat: Anyone heard of Multihaven cats?

THAT'S a Pinto! Probably even explodes on impact, like many of the Pintos did. Of course, an explosion would probably improve the looks of it.

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Old 09-01-2010, 05:42   #62
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In the end, buy the one you feel comfortable with, then enjoy it and maintain it and I'm sure it'll give you many years of enjoyment.

Good Luck!
Everyone says that, but in reality I only have so much money to spend on it. Then of course after everything, you have to also keep an eye on re-sale.
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Old 10-01-2010, 07:51   #63
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Everyone says that, but in reality I only have so much money to spend on it. Then of course after everything, you have to also keep an eye on re-sale.
Absolutely! So, when you determine your budget, the cost to 'upgrade' a perspective boat must be considered. It's a complicated process and if you are like me, there is a certain amount of compromise on that list of criteria! Also, don't short change the maintenance budget either, or that will definately kill the re-sale price.

As far as re-sale, remember, it's a market, the same as real estate or the stock market. My boat has been the best investment I've made in the last 6 years! With the unusual economic times, all my investments in stock and real estate have taken a far greater % loss than my boat! There is 2 markets, used charter boats and used 'owner' boats. Buyers are able to distinguish between charter and 'owner' boats and are willing to pay the difference. I believe the biggest competitor with the used 'owner' boat market is not charter boats, but new factory boats. The factories drop their prices in hard times and that drops the prices on the used 'owner' boats. There are plenty of people that will purchase a charter boat for personal use, perform the needed 'refit' and use it happily for years. But that market has always been there.
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Old 10-01-2010, 07:55   #64
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RudyBishop

I hope you caught this message, a testimony from a FP owner.

Help Ranking These Cats
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:00   #65
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We looked closely at the FP, Lagoon 380, Broadblue 385 and Privilege 39. The Broadblue and Privilege being in the pricier category than the FP and Lagoon.

All in all they all provide 'value for money' but obviously we all have different values...

We narrowed it down to the FP based upon the following:

1. Price & Quality: We really liked the BB & Privilege but at that time we didn't want to spend the substantially greater amount. So, we made the decision to purchase a less expensive boat and put some of the difference towards upgrades. Obviously if you take an FP/Lagoon hull and keep upgrading you've eventually put yourself in the next price category so you have to be strategic.

Would I do it again? Not sure - it takes a fair bit of time, money and energy which may tilt me towards simply spending the extra up-front on a well equipped boat. However, it is nice to do more or less exactly what you want. Next time we might actually consider a custom/semi-custom build.

2. Performance under Sail: We sailed everything above (except the Privilege) and the FP was in our opinion the best of the bunch. She's lighter and carries more sail so she's fast; We sail through tacks without backwinding the jib (BB does too with the Prout rig); And there's a lot of buoyancy in the bows and stern so she rides the swells nicely. I'd really like to try the Privilege some day...

Next time? Yup, we'd go for performance right after price. We like sailing and want a boat that can sail all the time if we so desire.

3. Comfort: The Broadblue and Privilege offer truly luxurious fit-outs and their woodwork and attention to detail is superb. I think they deliver the goods for the extra money. The Lagoon is (I think) actually larger inside than the FP - or at least she feels larger. In terms of interior comfort I'd rate the Lagoon above the FP. We have a Maestro version (2 + Master cabin) which is the only one I'd consider for the FP.

Next time? I'd like two 'master' cabins and more storage/utility space. Or maybe I should just rip the guts out of the 3rd cabin and turn that into such space.

All of the above deliver value for money and you simply have to look at the three value parameters (price/performance/comfort) and decide which balance suits you best. They're all good boats.

Is the FP comparable to a Pinto? No, that's a completely baseless comparison which kind of implies that all us FP owners are brain-dead morons who can't differentiate between a decent boat and an incendiary piece of automotive crap.
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Old 12-01-2010, 15:02   #66
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Is the FP comparable to a Pinto? No, that's a completely baseless comparison which kind of implies that all us FP owners are brain-dead morons who can't differentiate between a decent boat and an incendiary piece of automotive crap.
Unfortunately, unsubstantiated claims like this get taken verbatim.

The original message,
"my multihull friends refer to the FP as a "Pinto" which is a low quality American car of some years ago"

Wouldn't be nice to understand the reasons behind the above claim?

Give me the facts about why 'friends' concluded FP was a "Pinto", and I'll make up my mind. But don't give me 2nd hand innuendoes.
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Old 12-01-2010, 20:22   #67
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Unfortunately, unsubstantiated claims like this get taken verbatim.
.......
Give me the facts about why 'friends' concluded FP was a "Pinto", and I'll make up my mind. But don't give me 2nd hand innuendoes.
My feelings exactly. I'm interested in valid critiques from personal experiences not vague third-hand opinions.

Let's face it, all of we boat owners probably think our boat is the best choice - and it most likely is (for us)!! That doesn't mean that everything else is crap.
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Old 12-01-2010, 20:51   #68
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Lagoon 410 hull/bilge liner???

Seems like I read that lagoon molds a hull liner into the boat before the decks are put on. Looking back to the 380 & 410 I chartered all the bilges including the deep keel were awfully smooth, like they were gel coated. Didn't think about it then but now I want a little more info.

If there is a liner is there a dead space between it and the inner skin of the hull. Or is the liner laminated to the inner skin of the hull, (I don't think this is likely). What do you do if you want to put a thru hull in, cut away part of the liner to get to the structural part of the hull? If there is a liner in the bilge it would seem to be a real concern if the hull were pierced but not the liner. You wouldn't have a clue where the leak was coming from. I'm not too keen on the integral keel bilge either. I was thinking of glassing it over hoping to avert a flood should the keel take a hit. A bilge liner would complicate this.

Can anyone set me straight on this? Thank you.

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Old 13-01-2010, 08:53   #69
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FP a Pinto? How many car owners are going to admit they made a mistake buying a Pinto, or any car for that matter. They want their family to feel good (safe) while in the car and have to sell it someday and don't want to kill the resale value.
One way to judge the quality of catamarans is to price similar sized boats among the different manufactures. But then I guess someone will say that the owners of catamarans such as Catanas and Privilages overpaid. Anybody want to post such a spread sheet?
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Old 13-01-2010, 12:14   #70
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FP a Pinto? How many car owners are going to admit they made a mistake buying a Pinto, or any car for that matter. They want their family to feel good (safe) while in the car and have to sell it someday and don't want to kill the resale value.
One way to judge the quality of catamarans is to price similar sized boats among the different manufactures. But then I guess someone will say that the owners of catamarans such as Catanas and Privilages overpaid. Anybody want to post such a spread sheet?
Ah, now I'm beginning to understand, quality corresponds with price. I'm sure FP would be happy to sell you any model and raise the price accordingly to match your quality requirements.

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Old 13-01-2010, 23:47   #71
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Yes, I would say that, IMHO, and most of the time, in my experience, price is a reflection of quality.
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Old 14-01-2010, 04:16   #72
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Yes, I would say that, IMHO, and most of the time, in my experience, price is a reflection of quality.
And why do you think anyone disputes that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbanker View Post
FP a Pinto? How many car owners are going to admit they made a mistake buying a Pinto, or any car for that matter.
....
I guess someone will say that the owners of catamarans such as Catanas and Privilages overpaid. Anybody want to post such a spread sheet?
Price does indeed reflect increased quality as well as quantity. I don't think anyone suggested that buyers of Privileges 'overpaid' - that's your inference and not what was said.

Actually its more the case that the higher priced boats contain luxuries that may not be critical to the business of sailing. So buyers may not want to (or can't afford to) spend the additional money.

I can afford a Merc with full leather upholstery but I'm quite happy buying a Beemer (or a Toyota for that matter). That statement doesn't suggest the Merc buyer overpaid by any stretch of the imagination. It also doesn't mean the Toyota is unfit for purpose.

And why does a guy sailing a Hallberg-Rassy care about a multihull discussion anyway?
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Old 14-01-2010, 06:32   #73
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Because I am in South Africa getting ready to sail my new catamaran back to the Caribbean.
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Old 14-01-2010, 08:20   #74
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Because I am in South Africa getting ready to sail my new catamaran back to the Caribbean.
I'm curious if you reviewed this site.

Voyage 450 Cabriolet | My Yacht Lawsuit

In all honesty, I was aware of a US owner's lawsuit against FP prior to my purchase of an FP boat, so I'm not attempting to insinuate anything, just wondering if you had seen this and concluded, like I did, to proceed anyway.
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Old 14-01-2010, 20:10   #75
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I'll wager that most large manufacturers have had a lawsuit (at least). I suspect if any of us had access to all these legal actions we'd find a very small pool of available boats to purchase!!

Boats aren't mass produced items so quality varies from boat to boat even within the same model. They're a bit like production houses in that you know there will be punchlist items but you don't know whether these items will be the same from boat to boat. And they rely heavily on the engineering and installation talents of many subcontractors and suppliers.

The big question for prospective owners is whether the problems indicate a systemic lack of quality and/or serious design flaws. Which is why people tend to buy well known brands with warrantees (for whatever they may be worth). It greatly reduces the risk of buying a lemon. And provides some protection if you're unlucky.

That being said, my preference has always been to purchase a very new used boat. And even that hasn't protected me from submitting warranty claims!!

Gbanker, have a blast sailing your boat back from SA - sounds like a great adventure. What made you choose to go to the dark side?
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