FP Mahe 36 - Page 52

lstyles · 18-06-2009, 09:49

We have recently started to have problems with backflow into the head. We changed the joker valve and it hasnt helped. I am thinking that what is coming back is from the sewage remaining in the hose between top of tank and head itself. It would seem that a basic problem with the system is the height of the holding tank and so the hose is long and has some pressure due to the height of the tank. Is there some other valve that might be better to stop this backflow? I have asked around and no one seems to think that any of the other types of valves would work in this setting.
thanks,
Lori
PS. The 30 HP engines are great!

Scott730 · 18-06-2009, 11:43

Lori
I had the same problem, I think you have to replace the bottom gasket at the base of the hand pump as well as the joker valve. It seems to be working for me. It has been 8 months since doing that and no problem.

Cotemar · 18-06-2009, 14:22

Istyles,

Go back to Page 39 Post #574 for a full explanation with pictures of your Jasco toilet. You needs to replace two rubber valves.

Mark

MKB53 · 18-06-2009, 21:48

On the topic of mainsail modifications.

1: I have had the reefing points in the main re-inforced with webbing. I tore one, possibly due to too much force when reefing but the sailmaker seemed to think it it should not have torn and recommended webbing as a standard. If you are having work done on the head fitting you may want to consider this as well.

2: I have seen some suggestions that you should have a 3rd reef (25%) as a fallback for heavy conditions on a cat - any thoughts on this? I am reluctant to go through the effort of removing the main again unless it is warranted.

3: The 2 line reefing system I outline a few months ago has now been used in anger a few times and worked beautifully! No need to leave the cockpit at all. You only need to use the winch on the clew reefing line, the tack line you can take in by hand. Running the reefing lines through the eyes is OK, no need to add any blocks. The only time friction is a bit of a nuisance is when re hoisting and as long as you pull some line through the jammer to get rid of the additional drag it is fine.

I have also fitted a second rope bag at the helm to cope with the additional lines.

lstyles · 18-06-2009, 23:07

Thanks for the advice on the head problem. I will try that out tomorrow and see if that makes the difference.
My first question went so well I will ask another question, when we raise the anchor the chain frequently jumps out of the metal channel (dont know what you call that) at the roller and over the side edge when the boat angle turns to the roller. I try to go slow and let the boat settle before pulling up more chain but its pretty cumbersome. Its a pain (and kinda risky) to get it back in the channel. I was thinking that maybe some modification to the end of the channel (like a rod across the channel at the to edge might keep the chain from jumping out of the channel. Has anyone else run into this or have any thoughts about solutions?
Thanks,
Lori

Scott730 · 19-06-2009, 05:57

Mike
Could you send pictures of how your running the reef lines thru the Eye? I'm having a hard time visualizing the set up.

Lori
It must be early because I'm having the same trouble with your post, The only channel I have is at the windlass and there is a retaining pin to keep the chain in place. How about a picture of your set up as well.

Scott

lstyles · 19-06-2009, 18:35

Its hard to take a picture of if because of the netting on the trampoline. I am talking about the metal "trough" that is on the outside of the boat where the anchor chain leaves the windlass lazarette. We are going to try and build up the sides of the trough to see if by raising the sides we can keep the chain in the trough rather than jumping over the side edges. I tried taking pictures but the netting gets in the way.
Lori

MKB53 · 20-06-2009, 21:30

Hi Lori

The anchor chain does tend to ride up on the anchor fairlead when the boat veers to one side. This is because the chain catches on the straight/sharp edge. I think the only solution is to have the end of the fitting flared out. What I do is use the engines to keep the boat straight ahead but this obviously need two people.

I have not had my fitting modified yet but I think I will do so. Interested to hear if anyone else has done this. The thin bead they have welded inside the lip on the steel plate (as a wear strip?) probably aggravates it!

Cheers
Martin

MKB53 · 20-06-2009, 22:20

Scott

I don't have any pictures of the reefing handy (other than those posted previously) so I will attempt to describe.

1: Clew - The clew setup is exactly the same as the standard except that when the line exits the boom at the mast end it is lead to a block on the collar on the mast and back to the clutches/winches (note - 4 additional clutches reqd).

2: Tack - Standard set up : There are 2 s/s lugs on the mast on each side. These are used to attach the standard reefing pennant (webbing strap). Looped through the port side and on the starboard there it a snap shackel attached to the lug to connect the loose end of the pennant.

So - Remove the snap shackels from the stbd side of the mast but leave the shackle on the lug. Fasten the end of the new reefing line to the port side lug on the mast. Feed the line through the reefing eye in the luff of the sail (similarly to the way the clew line is fed.) Then feed the line through the shackle attached to the stbd lug, down to a new block attached to the mast collar and back to the clutch bank. The shackle is just bringing the line back to the same angle (of pull) as the port side and does not have much load on it.

Obviously the respective top/bottom pairs of lugs are used for 2nd/first reefs.

You could have a sailmaker fit a block to the sail at the reefing point (as recommended by some people) and at the lug on the mast to reduce friction but It works fine as is and is the lowest cost/impact solution.

Note that you can still use the old webbing reefing straps and boom end jammers in a emergency, especially if you leave the snapshackles rigged (I have not).

I have used a double block at the mast for each set of tack lines and clew lines as there are limited holes in the mast collar. You only ever have tension in one at a time.

The pictures I posted previously show the mast and clutch arrangement but don't go up as far as the eye in the sail but that is very straightforward.

I hope that helps.

Cheers
Martin

MKB53 · 20-06-2009, 22:35

Hi Jef
Re: "I don't have a good solution yet to prevent the jib sheet to get stuck behind the mast winch, except for laying the sheet on the winch before tacking."

I took a picture of my solution but I have a small technical problem and can't upload it at the moment. I will do so when I have resolved the problem.

In summary I made up a strong shock cord (10mm) with a plastic hook on each end and a "plug" in the middle (sliding, not fixed.) The hooks are attached to 1: one of the cutouts in the mast base plate and 2: in the track at the back of the mast about the level of the winch. When sailing the plug is inserted in the hole in the top of the winch for the winch handle. This means there is an angled cord at the rear and under the winch and sheds the sheet pretty reliably. The plug is just pulled from the hole when you want to use the winch and teh stretchy lies against the mast.

I used a T junction for black pvc water hose for the Plug (19mm I think). I cut off the T arms and trimmed the stem and "hey presto", it fitted. I am sure you could find alternatives but this is all I could find in my garage that fitted the winch handle hole.

Hope that helps, I will post the picture when I can

Cheers
Martin

Talbot · 21-06-2009, 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKB53

The anchor chain does tend to ride up on the anchor fairlead when the boat veers to one side. This is because the chain catches on the straight/sharp edge. I think the only solution is to have the end of the fitting flared out.

Are you talking about the end of the bow roller. Most that are on the market are just straight with nothing really holding the chain onto the roller. On my catalac there was a flange that projected beyond the roller, and was angled outwards at 45 degrees for about 2 inches.

Scott730 · 21-06-2009, 08:15

Martin
Thanks, that was a very good explaination and now I can "see" how you did it.

Lori
I two use the engines to position the boat while the "admiral" works the windlass. If you don't do this you will scrap the hulls bring up the chain once the bridal is removed. Even flaring the metal or pinning the chain in the "trough"/roller won't prevent messing up the hulls if you don't keep the boat positioned right.

Scott

MKB53 · 21-06-2009, 17:02

The good thing about this thread is that we all seem to have had similar issues and there is great feedback on them.

I have been racking my brains to think of a way around the anchor retrieval issue. You should use the engines anyway otherwise you stress the winch but the fact that it does not easily swing back and can damage the hulls bothers me.

Regarding the toilet/backflow issues. I am planning to put a Jabsco electric conversion on the toilet as you have to have a mascerator in Queensland. These units are really neat (but costly) and are just bolt on replacements for the manual pump fitting. I like the simplicity and the fact that you could always fit the manual again if anything breaks.

Does anyone have any experience of these units? The alternative is to replace the whole bowl with an electric one which is the same cost but not as elegant a solution.

At least either solution should stop the backflow!

Cheers
Martin

Cotemar · 21-06-2009, 20:03

Picked up 2 SpeedSeals to replace the Impeller covers and makes impeller changes faster and easier.
www.speedseal.com/speedseal.html
Mark

DtM · 22-06-2009, 00:19

Lori,

I think that the chain pulling to one side can really only be properly controlled using the motors. Sure it is a two person job (or you wait as the boat swings back and forth) but the damage that you will cause and the stress on the windlass makes taking the time worth it.

As I have said in a previous post, you should ensure that the "driver" sees what the issue is so that they understand the directions from the windlass operator.

my 2 cents.

18-06-2009, 09:49	#766
lstyles Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Oakland, CA Boat: Mahe 36 Posts: 45	Problems with head backflow We have recently started to have problems with backflow into the head. We changed the joker valve and it hasnt helped. I am thinking that what is coming back is from the sewage remaining in the hose between top of tank and head itself. It would seem that a basic problem with the system is the height of the holding tank and so the hose is long and has some pressure due to the height of the tank. Is there some other valve that might be better to stop this backflow? I have asked around and no one seems to think that any of the other types of valves would work in this setting. thanks, Lori PS. The 30 HP engines are great!

21-06-2009, 20:03	#779
Cotemar Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mystic, CT Boat: FP Mahe 36 CATATUDE Posts: 109	Picked up 2 SpeedSeals to replace the Impeller covers and makes impeller changes faster and easier. www.speedseal.com/speedseal.html Mark Attached Thumbnails

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18-06-2009, 11:43	#767
Scott730 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mt Dora Florida Boat: Mahe, 36' "Oceanview" Posts: 222	Lori I had the same problem, I think you have to replace the bottom gasket at the base of the hand pump as well as the joker valve. It seems to be working for me. It has been 8 months since doing that and no problem.

18-06-2009, 14:22	#768
Cotemar Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mystic, CT Boat: FP Mahe 36 CATATUDE Posts: 109	Istyles, Go back to Page 39 Post #574 for a full explanation with pictures of your Jasco toilet. You needs to replace two rubber valves. Mark

18-06-2009, 21:48	#769
MKB53 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Boat: FP Mahe 36 - Reflexion Posts: 48	On the topic of mainsail modifications. 1: I have had the reefing points in the main re-inforced with webbing. I tore one, possibly due to too much force when reefing but the sailmaker seemed to think it it should not have torn and recommended webbing as a standard. If you are having work done on the head fitting you may want to consider this as well. 2: I have seen some suggestions that you should have a 3rd reef (25%) as a fallback for heavy conditions on a cat - any thoughts on this? I am reluctant to go through the effort of removing the main again unless it is warranted. 3: The 2 line reefing system I outline a few months ago has now been used in anger a few times and worked beautifully! No need to leave the cockpit at all. You only need to use the winch on the clew reefing line, the tack line you can take in by hand. Running the reefing lines through the eyes is OK, no need to add any blocks. The only time friction is a bit of a nuisance is when re hoisting and as long as you pull some line through the jammer to get rid of the additional drag it is fine. I have also fitted a second rope bag at the helm to cope with the additional lines.

18-06-2009, 23:07	#770
lstyles Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Oakland, CA Boat: Mahe 36 Posts: 45	Thanks for the advice on the head problem. I will try that out tomorrow and see if that makes the difference. My first question went so well I will ask another question, when we raise the anchor the chain frequently jumps out of the metal channel (dont know what you call that) at the roller and over the side edge when the boat angle turns to the roller. I try to go slow and let the boat settle before pulling up more chain but its pretty cumbersome. Its a pain (and kinda risky) to get it back in the channel. I was thinking that maybe some modification to the end of the channel (like a rod across the channel at the to edge might keep the chain from jumping out of the channel. Has anyone else run into this or have any thoughts about solutions? Thanks, Lori

19-06-2009, 05:57	#771
Scott730 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mt Dora Florida Boat: Mahe, 36' "Oceanview" Posts: 222	Mike Could you send pictures of how your running the reef lines thru the Eye? I'm having a hard time visualizing the set up. Lori It must be early because I'm having the same trouble with your post, The only channel I have is at the windlass and there is a retaining pin to keep the chain in place. How about a picture of your set up as well. Scott

19-06-2009, 18:35	#772
lstyles Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Oakland, CA Boat: Mahe 36 Posts: 45	Its hard to take a picture of if because of the netting on the trampoline. I am talking about the metal "trough" that is on the outside of the boat where the anchor chain leaves the windlass lazarette. We are going to try and build up the sides of the trough to see if by raising the sides we can keep the chain in the trough rather than jumping over the side edges. I tried taking pictures but the netting gets in the way. Lori

20-06-2009, 21:30	#773
MKB53 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Boat: FP Mahe 36 - Reflexion Posts: 48	Hi Lori The anchor chain does tend to ride up on the anchor fairlead when the boat veers to one side. This is because the chain catches on the straight/sharp edge. I think the only solution is to have the end of the fitting flared out. What I do is use the engines to keep the boat straight ahead but this obviously need two people. I have not had my fitting modified yet but I think I will do so. Interested to hear if anyone else has done this. The thin bead they have welded inside the lip on the steel plate (as a wear strip?) probably aggravates it! Cheers Martin

20-06-2009, 22:20	#774
MKB53 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Boat: FP Mahe 36 - Reflexion Posts: 48	Scott I don't have any pictures of the reefing handy (other than those posted previously) so I will attempt to describe. 1: Clew - The clew setup is exactly the same as the standard except that when the line exits the boom at the mast end it is lead to a block on the collar on the mast and back to the clutches/winches (note - 4 additional clutches reqd). 2: Tack - Standard set up : There are 2 s/s lugs on the mast on each side. These are used to attach the standard reefing pennant (webbing strap). Looped through the port side and on the starboard there it a snap shackel attached to the lug to connect the loose end of the pennant. So - Remove the snap shackels from the stbd side of the mast but leave the shackle on the lug. Fasten the end of the new reefing line to the port side lug on the mast. Feed the line through the reefing eye in the luff of the sail (similarly to the way the clew line is fed.) Then feed the line through the shackle attached to the stbd lug, down to a new block attached to the mast collar and back to the clutch bank. The shackle is just bringing the line back to the same angle (of pull) as the port side and does not have much load on it. Obviously the respective top/bottom pairs of lugs are used for 2nd/first reefs. You could have a sailmaker fit a block to the sail at the reefing point (as recommended by some people) and at the lug on the mast to reduce friction but It works fine as is and is the lowest cost/impact solution. Note that you can still use the old webbing reefing straps and boom end jammers in a emergency, especially if you leave the snapshackles rigged (I have not). I have used a double block at the mast for each set of tack lines and clew lines as there are limited holes in the mast collar. You only ever have tension in one at a time. The pictures I posted previously show the mast and clutch arrangement but don't go up as far as the eye in the sail but that is very straightforward. I hope that helps. Cheers Martin

20-06-2009, 22:35	#775
MKB53 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Boat: FP Mahe 36 - Reflexion Posts: 48	Hi Jef Re: "I don't have a good solution yet to prevent the jib sheet to get stuck behind the mast winch, except for laying the sheet on the winch before tacking." I took a picture of my solution but I have a small technical problem and can't upload it at the moment. I will do so when I have resolved the problem. In summary I made up a strong shock cord (10mm) with a plastic hook on each end and a "plug" in the middle (sliding, not fixed.) The hooks are attached to 1: one of the cutouts in the mast base plate and 2: in the track at the back of the mast about the level of the winch. When sailing the plug is inserted in the hole in the top of the winch for the winch handle. This means there is an angled cord at the rear and under the winch and sheds the sheet pretty reliably. The plug is just pulled from the hole when you want to use the winch and teh stretchy lies against the mast. I used a T junction for black pvc water hose for the Plug (19mm I think). I cut off the T arms and trimmed the stem and "hey presto", it fitted. I am sure you could find alternatives but this is all I could find in my garage that fitted the winch handle hole. Hope that helps, I will post the picture when I can Cheers Martin

21-06-2009, 08:15	#777
Scott730 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mt Dora Florida Boat: Mahe, 36' "Oceanview" Posts: 222	Martin Thanks, that was a very good explaination and now I can "see" how you did it. Lori I two use the engines to position the boat while the "admiral" works the windlass. If you don't do this you will scrap the hulls bring up the chain once the bridal is removed. Even flaring the metal or pinning the chain in the "trough"/roller won't prevent messing up the hulls if you don't keep the boat positioned right. Scott

21-06-2009, 17:02	#778
MKB53 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Boat: FP Mahe 36 - Reflexion Posts: 48	The good thing about this thread is that we all seem to have had similar issues and there is great feedback on them. I have been racking my brains to think of a way around the anchor retrieval issue. You should use the engines anyway otherwise you stress the winch but the fact that it does not easily swing back and can damage the hulls bothers me. Regarding the toilet/backflow issues. I am planning to put a Jabsco electric conversion on the toilet as you have to have a mascerator in Queensland. These units are really neat (but costly) and are just bolt on replacements for the manual pump fitting. I like the simplicity and the fact that you could always fit the manual again if anything breaks. Does anyone have any experience of these units? The alternative is to replace the whole bowl with an electric one which is the same cost but not as elegant a solution. At least either solution should stop the backflow! Cheers Martin

22-06-2009, 00:19	#780
DtM Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney Australia Boat: FP Mahe36 "2gether" Posts: 251	Lori, I think that the chain pulling to one side can really only be properly controlled using the motors. Sure it is a two person job (or you wait as the boat swings back and forth) but the damage that you will cause and the stress on the windlass makes taking the time worth it. As I have said in a previous post, you should ensure that the "driver" sees what the issue is so that they understand the directions from the windlass operator. my 2 cents.