FP Bahia vs Robertson Caine 46 (464 or 4600)

[LifeJacket]

My wife and I are trying to cast off our land lines and take the family cruising for a year or two. We have 3 kids and are looking around at cats that we can afford.

I have read alot on this forum and don't really want to get into the discussion that Catana's are better etc ... I know ... but unless I want to wait until retirement that isn't going to happen. I would rather "do" with a less than perfect boat than not do waiting for the perfect boat (if there is even such a thing).

There are many Bahia's on Yacht World that are in our price range as well as a few RC 46's. I understand you get what you pay for (and I don't have much to pay relative to the yacht prices) so my questions are:
- Are the Bahia's capable boats?
- Is there an inherint flaw in them that makes them unsafe?
- Why are they priced so much less than comparably sized cats?

As with all things there are gives and takes ... in my case price is a major "give".


Thanks in advance for any thoughts you have on this.

Rustin

[DotDun]

IMO, Bahia is a fine boat. I would guess price is associated with charter or no plus equipment.

[Palarran]

Rustin,
Are you sure it isn't the RC 47? If you can get a RC 46 for what Bahia's sell for - jump all over it. They really are nice boats.

If your comparing a RC 47 to a Bahia, then it would depend on where your planning on sailing. If it's going to be 1/4 open ocean or more, I'd go with the Bahia. For coastal cruising or Caribbean interisland, the RC.

[LifeJacket]

Thanks for the input.

Palarran ... why do you like the Bahia for open water? Our initial plan is to do the South Pacific ... so there will be a good bit of passage.

Thanks again.

Rustin

[Palarran]

The Bahia has substantially better bridge deck clearance. It also is better protected from breaking waves at the stern. This is in comparison to a RC 47. The 46's are better all around - IMO.

[Dragon Lady]

Have you looked at both?
The Fountaine Pajots are very seaworthy and hard to beat on price.
Their finish turns some people off but I like mine.

[Overlord]

i have a 47 leopard.i am biased as i am from cape town.Leopards are well built,plenty of space , lots of light,great lines and a good track record.They sail well,have great yanmar 56 hp shaft driven , no sail drives.They have a strong over spec mast and dyform standing rigging built by spar craft.they have sailed all over our planet.But if you like the Bahia , go for it

[ausaviator]

Fountaine Pajot = FIBREGLASS

Robertson & Caine = BALSA CORED with Fibreglass / GRP outer.

You decide based on that based on what you want below your waterline!

[Kiwikat]

A few comments here in Purple for you:

Originally Posted by LifeJacket

My wife and I are trying to cast off our land lines and take the family cruising for a year or two. We have 3 kids and are looking around at cats that we can afford.

I have read alot on this forum and don't really want to get into the discussion that Catana's are better etc ... I know ... but unless I want to wait until retirement that isn't going to happen. I would rather "do" with a less than perfect boat than not do waiting for the perfect boat (if there is even such a thing). Indeed!!

There are many Bahia's on Yacht World that are in our price range as well as a few RC 46's. I understand you get what you pay for (and I don't have much to pay relative to the yacht prices) so my questions are:
- Are the Bahia's capable boats?
We have just purchased a Bahia and sailed it nearly 3000 nms across the Pacific and found it to be a wonderfully capable boat. Admittedly our worst weather was only about 25-30 knots DDW with 3-5 mtr seas left over from a big low pressure system down south but the boat handled everything beautifully.


- Is there an inherint flaw in them that makes them unsafe?
Nothing we have discovered in 4 years research and nothing to change our mind on the voyage - felt completely safe. Sure we had breakages and gear failure on some things but only to be expected from a boat of that age left in the tropical sun relatively unmaintained for a number of years.


- Why are they priced so much less than comparably sized cats?
As Dotdun suggests, I think it is because the market is relatively flooded with used charter versions, some a lot worse than others. They also tend to have very few of the extras normally required for extensive navigation, cruising etc

As with all things there are gives and takes ... in my case price is a major "give".
That is the clincher. Any boat you get is still going to require a certain amount of refitting so start with one that gives you the best all round condition/engine hours etc that you can afford and work from there knowing your budget.


Thanks in advance for any thoughts you have on this.

Rustin

Sorry I do not have any experience with the Leopards other than standing on a 46 at a boat show. Having said that, I was very impressed with it but way out of my price range. Initially we quite liked the older Leopard 45 and 47 which are similar in the interior but were put off by the low bridge decks on them. JMHO.

Cheers
Kiwikat

[yeloya]

I have no idea on Leopards but have extensively sailed with Bahia and we have been keeping her on our charter fleet for years.

-No technical problem of any kind other than normal wear and tear.
-they are very seaworthy and capable boats. Under sail they are faster than many other catamarans.

Negatives ??

-no rigid bimini which makes the packing of the main a bit tricky..
-as a part of their design, the space utilization is not optimum; actually you get much less space than Orana which is 3 ft shorter.. (but sails better..)

All in all is a robust and reliable boat. As said, no clue on Leopard so I cannot compare.

Cheers

Yeloya

[Saafrican]

Hi I have sailed both cats many many miles. , mmmmmm like over 150000 miles The old RC cats. 45 and 47. Are fantastic boats , but the newer ones are too light . To lose weight RC cut materials and Reduced fiberglass used (compare the displacement of the older and newer boats) the newer boats are flimsy and not as solid as the old boats .
As stated above I have sailed thousands of OFF SHORE miles in both of these cats , and both makes are very capable passage makers .
The strongest winds encountered off the Cape Verde was 70 knots. And the auto pilot and boat handled those conditions well . We also used to fly our spinnaker up to 30 knots true wind with out any problem , and there were only three of us on board. ,not gorilla racing guys either .
Hope that this helps , as you can tell I love cats they are FANTASTIC passage ocean passage makers .
I've sailed Wild cats , Island Spirits , Leopards 38 to 47. Lagoons. Catalinas and Pajoits

The lonely moto I sailed by was. IF YOU THINK OF REFFING. DO IT NOW

Enjoy your cruise

[xxuxx]

I too have sailed both the Bahia 46 and the Leopard 46.
THERE IS NO COMPARISON:
GO FOR THE LEOPARD 46!!!!!
My reasons: If you like to cook, the galley on the Leopard is twice the size and the sinks are twice as big. The cockpit is better laid out and larger. The helm station is separate and apart but not isolated. The staterooms are larger and better thought out. The Leopard 46 is a Morelli and Melvin design (think: Gunboat) . If you don't know them, they are the current state-of-the-art design team.
Have you been on both? Have you sailed both? If you have you wouldn't be asking that question.

[Shrubb]

Hello all !
New on this fantastic and documented forum, I am considering buying a recent Leopard 46. No doubt on comfort and easy to handle, but speed and performance are also a concern for me : I plan to cross the Atlantic regularly and wouldn't like to spare months on the trip.
Does this boat cruise fast enough, compared to FP's, Privilege, Nautitech (Outremer is apart...) I also consider. Are its performances much depending upon sails, load, and minimum wind speed ?
Thank you to experienced owners for their advices.

[xxuxx]

Teles, read my above post. However I would consider a Leopard 46 2008 and newer. Reason: Yanmar engines and thicker hulls 2008+. Also the third place winner in the Caribbean 1500 in 2010 was "Fado Fado" a Leopard 46. This is a race from Hampton VA to Tortola BVI hence the name Caribe 1500 because its about that distance all water sailing">blue water sailing. The FP Bahia is an older design and certainly much cheaper, but thinK; no hardtop bimini for your solar, older design, and really crappy galley. French do like to cook don't they????

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by xxuxx

Teles, read my above post. However I would consider a Leopard 46 2008 and newer. Reason: Yanmar engines and thicker hulls 2008+. Also the third place winner in the Caribbean 1500 in 2010 was "Fado Fado" a Leopard 46. This is a race from Hampton VA to Tortola BVI hence the name Caribe 1500 because its about that distance all blue water sailing. The FP Bahia is an older design and certainly much cheaper, but thinK; no hardtop bimini for your solar, older design, and really crappy galley. French do like to cook don't they????

And where is the dedicated freezer on the Leopard? FP Bahia galley is fine!