Finally - Multihulls Get a Little Respect

[henryv]

The new AC rules are based on multihulls where they state as follows:

A catamaran was selected as one element to transform and enliven the America’s Cup for the future. A multihull is the ideal dynamic class, capable of being raced hard in winds from 5 to 30 knots to minimize racing delays due to winds too light or too strong.

OK - let the debate begin....

[schoonerdog]

well, duh. No debate really. Cat's and multi's have every racing trophy there is, except for the ones in which they really haven't bothered to compete in.

[Stillraining]

The smaller platform will definitely put some much needed competition back into the race...Glad to see it.

FWIW..Respect or the lack of it as you say ...has and always was a figment of multi owners imagination...We that choose to sail monos do so by choice... Financial, ascetics, motion, sailing properties or other reasons... not lack of respect.

[Unicorn Dreams]

I've never understood what the courts have to do with AC. By charter from when The America won the trophy, the 100 guinea cup, I believe that was the name if memory serves me right. The NYYC was to be the ULTIMATE AUTHORITY...
But someone probably challenged that charter in court....

[maxingout]

I was amazed to see the mega multihulls racing in the last Americas Cup. I had a hard time believing that yachts could sail so fast in winds that were so light.

I was disappointed that it cost so much money to build and compete. It seemed like an ego trip for mega rich.

I would not even call the mega mulithulls yachts. They are simply speed machines designed to win races.

[Surveyor]

Originally Posted by Factor

At least multis still race without motors running which is more than you can say for most elite mono race boats these days

There isnt a rule aginst this?

[DevoDave]

Originally Posted by Surveyor

There isnt a rule aginst this?

I think he might be talking about the need to have a motor or two going to handle the hydralics, water ballast pumps, grinders, etc.

[Joli]

It would seem both the boats racing in the A33 had engines running. The loads required engines for safety.


A catamaran was chosen over a trimaran because it is supposedly less costly to produce and easier to ship. The AC72 is designed to provide boat speeds of 1.2 times the true windspeed upwind, and 1.6 times true windspeed downwind in light (less than 10 knot) winds. After BMW Oracle's success in the 33rd America's Cup, and with traditional designs being tossed out the window, it comes as little surprise that the boats will fly wing sails, and that these wings may have electronic controls. Thankfully, however, it looks like engines will not be allowed this time.

34th America's Cup - Sailing Cats with Wings | YachtPals.com

Originally Posted by Factor

At least multis still race without motors running which is more than you can say for most elite mono race boats these days

[Joli]

Do I think a hopped up multi will make the best America Cup match racer? No, for the simple fact high powered multi's can make huge gains depending on pressure. If one boat finds preasure the lead can make the race uninteresting.

My $.02

[Unicorn Dreams]

The old 12 meters didn't have engines, that's why they were towed out to the course. They had motors to run uncidentals, just no engine.
Look at photos of the boats being launched, no shaft, no struts and they had push boats to get them into the dock..

[Factor]

Thats cool - I have been quoted twice - even though no message from me exists in this thread.

[Dragon Lady]

Originally Posted by Joli

Do I think a hopped up multi will make the best America Cup match racer? No, for the simple fact high powered multi's can make huge gains depending on pressure. If one boat finds preasure the lead can make the race uninteresting.

My $.02

Oh I didn't realize that never happens in mono racing, I must have been dreaming yesterday when we came in 10 mins ahead of the second boat when we picked the side of the course with more breaze.
This happens in all racing as someone once said I'd rather be a lucky sailor than than a more skilled sailor.
Bring on the mulitis, if a class is supossed to be the most high tech big boats on the planet then let them be the best what ever the number of hulls.

[Ex-Calif]

The fundamental question in all racing is, "Do you want to test the sailors or the boats."

Strict one design tests the sailors (ok -maybe the cheaters too but let's not go there). We do 2-crew J24 "fun" match racing at our club. It's double elimination and the crews have to alternate between the 2 boats. At the end of the day we pretty much know what crew was best on that day.

By creating a design "box" and letting the designers build different yachts you are largely testing technology and money.

I really don't care about AC racing - it's too far beyond my realm of comprehension and I can not in any way identify with the sailors, the financiers, the lawyers, the racing or the boats as relates to my sailing. Even the idea that "America" holds the cup is stupid in this global, multicultural endeavor.

AC really ought to declare what they are doing so at least idiots like me can understand what they are racing about.

I personally want to know who the best sailors are - that's why I lean towards the World Match racing Tour. They also sail inland waters and try to be spectator friendly.

http://www.wmrt.com/

As for multihulls in AC and respect? Didn't that respect come last time around? IIR the boats were multihulls. Now to the question of which "country" has the best sailors? Who knows - It certainly isn't decided in the AC.

Now which country has the most money and the best lawyers - That's a great question - NOT!

[tsmwebb]

Originally Posted by Unicorn Dreams

I've never understood what the courts have to do with AC. By charter from when The America won the trophy, the 100 guinea cup, I believe that was the name if memory serves me right. The NYYC was to be the ULTIMATE AUTHORITY...
But someone probably challenged that charter in court....

The surviving winners of the Cup placed it in a charitable trust under NY State law defining conditions on the conduct of the defending YC and the challenging YC. Given its long history there hasn't been a great deal of litigation. Twice clubs that wanted to challenge for the cup have had the validity of their challenges tested in court (one winning and one losing). A third case dealt with the legality of defending against a monhull with a multihull (allowed on appeal).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deed_of_Gift

The Deed of Gift is a registered Trust document in the Supreme Court of the State of New York in Albany, New York. An interpretation of the document, when contested, can be taken before that Court for clarification on whether the Deed of Gift's terms and conditions (as written by George L. Schuyler) are being met.

Tom

[tsmwebb]

Originally Posted by Joli

It would seem both the boats racing in the A33 had engines running. The loads required engines for safety.

Both had engines powering major control systems during the Cup racing. The boat that became USA17 was designed to sail under human power alone and did so in early testing but SNG quietly changed the rules to allow for engines late in the development cycle and the tri was modified to use them as well. SNG argued the safety point and GGYC suggested that SNG was looking for competitive advantage particularly on their cat where they would have needed a more complex set of controls. Although I'm more inclined to the GGYC point of view (they did sail the boat w/o engines) it is clear that the powered hydraulic systems made both boats faster and safer in practice.

Tom