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Old 16-04-2016, 18:42   #16
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Re: Feedback from La Grande Motte

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Properly designed and specified, the rig will provide all the support the mast needs.


But to answer your question, yes the topping lift and mainsheet would add some further support.

Lagoon's position here doesn't make any sense at all. Are their owners supposed to sail with the main sheeted in tight all the time? If you're sailing downwind (or any deeper than about 100' AWA) the mainsheet will normally be eased so much the sail will offer absolutely no support for the mast. Just the opposite in fact, the mainsail will just ADD LOAD to the mast.
Great point and demonstrates the absurd position of lagoon,

I am always cautious when I hear someone from " Marketing " explain something , clearly Lagoon are out of touch and underspec their rigs going by the position they are taking
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Old 17-04-2016, 02:00   #17
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Re: Feedback from La Grande Motte

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Properly designed and specified, the rig will provide all the support the mast needs.


But to answer your question, yes the topping lift and mainsheet would add some further support.

Lagoon's position here doesn't make any sense at all. Are their owners supposed to sail with the main sheeted in tight all the time? If you're sailing downwind (or any deeper than about 100' AWA) the mainsheet will normally be eased so much the sail will offer absolutely no support for the mast. Just the opposite in fact, the mainsail will just ADD LOAD to the mast.

Thanks 44. Nice to know I am thinking along the same lines as those with more experience than me.
On another point, again hopefully not naive. When furling the spin, I always first head dead down wind as this depowers it. Has worked for me so far.


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Old 17-04-2016, 07:17   #18
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Re: Feedback from La Grande Motte

Thanks for the report. I'm surprised at your reaction to the Lucia 40. We were at Boot Dusseldorf and thought the Lucia was the most exciting boat there. Open 40 seemed to be put is a haste to show something new under the Bavaria brand, not to the level of Bavaria mono. Lagoon 42 seems like a stretched 39, with mast moved back, except that on the 42 the compression post is in the middle of the saloon.

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Old 17-04-2016, 13:16   #19
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Re: Feedback from La Grande Motte

Feedback from La Grande Motte
Spent a day in LGM looking at mass production cats, with an eye for blue water cruising, size between 40 and 45ft. Am greenest, so was looking for real life apart from what I have learned reading through you guys (and gals) experience: and by the way, thanks for all your generally shared wisdom.
The following are random notes:
Lagoon 42: being very successful (they are already at hull 120 we were told) it was the first we approached. Balsa core, Weight: 12 Tons, Sails: 90 Sq. Mt, ratio: 7.5. Led lighting.


Balsa core! Won't that go soggy with any water intrusion?
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Old 17-04-2016, 13:33   #20
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Re: Feedback from La Grande Motte

Thanks for the report! Be wary of manufacturer quoted displacements. They are sometimes optimistic so won't always be apples to apples between makes. Did you go on the O Yacht? Any impressions?

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Old 17-04-2016, 14:14   #21
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Re: Feedback from La Grande Motte

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Originally Posted by Miki View Post
Feedback from La Grande Motte
Spent a day in LGM looking at mass production cats, with an eye for blue water cruising, size between 40 and 45ft. Am greenest, so was looking for real life apart from what I have learned reading through you guys (and gals) experience: and by the way, thanks for all your generally shared wisdom.
The following are random notes:
Lagoon 42: being very successful (they are already at hull 120 we were told) it was the first we approached. Balsa core, Weight: 12 Tons, Sails: 90 Sq. Mt, ratio: 7.5. Led lighting.


Balsa core! Won't that go soggy with any water intrusion?
With any core, keeping water out is a requirement. It's not hard to do, it's just common sense really.
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Old 17-04-2016, 15:07   #22
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Re: Feedback from La Grande Motte

We came to the same conclusions about the Leopard 44 at the boat show">Miami boat show and ended up buying one 👍😀



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Old 18-04-2016, 06:10   #23
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Feedback from La Grande Motte

Hi! Thanks for all replies. I really have not much to add regarding the mast issue on Lagoons, ainít a naval engineer, so where the problem stems from, I really donít know. Maybe the explanation given is not complete, but the issue is there. Yes 44cruisingcat, what you say seems to make senseÖ.. What I do know is that, would I find myself downwind in a Lagoon, Iíll keep at least a little bit of mainsail up. Better yet, wonít buy a LagoonÖ 
Pictures: the few that we did take would really be of no use to anybody sorry. Iíll recheck my wifeís phone and if something useful is there, will post.
Fast Cat re Outremer: yes, very well aware of that, but time was limited and knew that, at any rate, Outremerís cats are out of my league, financially speaking 
SVNeko: on displacement, yes, it was just as a reference, basically so I can understand what we are talking about.
Also, visited the Oí cat: the guys will build a performance boat for you, there are a few specs they will not go below of, like some parts have to be in carbon. I was told they wonít give you a price list but they will build a boat within your budget, be it 500K, or 700k et et. The inside was more cramped than the other boats, but I suppose the cat goes much faster. The boat is no condomaran for sure.
Rajsach, funny, visiting the Leopard 44 I remembered your post in another thread and had the same impression. I think Iíll give more thought to the Nautitech 46 as well.




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Old 18-04-2016, 09:16   #24
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Re: Feedback from La Grande Motte

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the O Yacht? Any impressions?
Hi, SVNeko, I am close to the builders and been on board of their 4x a few times while under construction as well as after they finished her.

One may find her appearance abit outdated, and this is a true as her design goes back to 20th century. On the other hand there ARE people, who still like her architecture.

She is more narrow compared to Your cat, You will particularly notice that in bathroom.

She is strong built (if talking of "vinyl-ester version") and good sailor. Not too much space for those extras blue-water crew usually wants, but a real fun boat for a weekly cruises in case one is happy with some "racy" look inside and does not claim "leather finish" in salon. Although ANY finish/equipment seems possible if the Owner does not mind heavier boat.

All bulkheads are of sandwich construction. Builder are proud saying their quality is above average.

The best I can recommend is You to try her.

Cordially,
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Old 18-04-2016, 17:42   #25
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Re: Feedback from La Grande Motte

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Great point and demonstrates the absurd position of lagoon,

I am always cautious when I hear someone from " Marketing " explain something , clearly Lagoon are out of touch and underspec their rigs going by the position they are taking
I would have to agree , I believe that the rig should be able to with stand any sail configuration that does not over power the boat and even then my preference is for the rig to stay up no matter what. A bunch (4-5) moorings 44 cats lost their rigs in Grenada this season . the mast maker says it is a design feature to save the boat .Rigs are going over the side intact after lifting off the base .happens up while going up wind (i know I know) in heavy seas . Talk on the dock is that the hulls are flexing enough to kick the rig off
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Old 18-04-2016, 19:19   #26
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Re: Feedback from La Grande Motte

Interesting point that perhaps the reason is to keep some compression in the rear of the mast, but this could also be achieved by fixing the halyard to the gooseneck and tensioning. I just can't see a good engineering reason, especially considering the headsails are connected directly at the side stay position. And loads should be directly applied to the stays and chainplates. We tend to just keep the boom centred and hauled in tight to tension the topping lift. This probably stiffens the rig slightly. Maybe they think a fully reefed main will support the mid point between deck and stays to avoid it wobbling, but I'm of the mind that there is no real support gained from the clew to the head of a curved sail.
Back on topic...I'm interested in hearing any reviews of the open 46, especially a sail test!
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Old 19-04-2016, 04:06   #27
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Re: Feedback from La Grande Motte

re lagoon mast rules ---

in my experience is vibration. When headsail only, boat, not just mast, gets vibrations that are reduced if main present under stronger conditions.

system way too complex to be able to easily see the logic. It may be simply main is vibration dumpener.

Hold the mast and you will feel.

Vibrations are bad as they age whole structure. Vibrations will impact mast too.

Lagoon 400 are very stiff boats.
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Old 02-05-2016, 10:32   #28
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Re: Feedback from La Grande Motte

Just posted a video tour of the Nautitech Open 46 from LGM. Here is the link:



I loved the boat and it is now our number 1 choice. It checks off the most requirements for us and hits a sweet spot on the compromises. Very impressed with the fit and finish of the boat and we were extremely impressed with the factory reps and their willingness to work with us.

Gary
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Old 02-05-2016, 21:57   #29
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Re: Feedback from La Grande Motte

Gary, thanks for posting that video what a nice boat .I liked the layout with the seating/cocktail are very nice, depending where you sail an inside dinning table would not get used much ,we just came back from 3 months in the Caribbean and did not eat inside once .
If you do go ahead I suggest that you have a good hard think about having all the halyards at the mast or at least the main . Our Outremer had a 2to 1 main halyard run back to the cockpit which meant that I had a 140 foot coil of rope to deal with and because it had to be lead aft and the friction was such that you had to use the electric winch which was very slow. Our boat has bat cars so I tried hauling at mast by hand and was surprised how easy it was,if I am feeling energetic I can hoist all the way up . I waited a year before shortening the halyard just in case . Much less spaghetti in the cockpit now . Fyi I am 57 and no great specimen
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Old 03-05-2016, 09:25   #30
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Re: Feedback from La Grande Motte

Nice solution for the compression post. Nicer than L42 solution.

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