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Old 07-01-2009, 13:26   #16
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I vote for the closure of this thread. We've heard it all before. Do we really need another session of Gideon Fastcat bashing?

For what it's worth, I think boats are a pain at any stage of the life-cycle. Boats are sent to try us; it is triumphing over adversity that generates most of the pleasure. I'm quite sure that all the delays and irritations will pale into insignificance once B&B get underway. I am sure that Gideon and his team are working their socks off to get things sorted, but boats aint easy.

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Old 07-01-2009, 13:34   #17
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regardless, I find it atypical that Gideon has not responded to this thread, since he seems to hijack every other multihull thread.
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Old 07-01-2009, 13:37   #18
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Chris, If it upsets you don't read it, but there are a lot of people who feel that if you are going to sell a boat and state that it does this and that and it doesn't, then it is unethical and people should know, especially when he seems to use CF as a launch pad for his potential designs and ideas.
I am sure if Gideon was a little more open and exact about his statements and when he makes a mistake he apologises and comes clean, then there would be a lot more sympathy for him, me included as I think he does have some good ideas.
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Old 07-01-2009, 13:57   #19
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Lets keep specific manufacturers and personalities out of this discussion. Its fine to discuss build quality in general. Its completely unfair to start bashing one manufacturer or another when that manufacturer has not responded. They should not have to respond in the first place. If you feel you need to vent your grievances with a specific person or manufacturer, then do it elsewhere. Or better yet, write them an email.

This is not a forum where we pit manufacturers representatives against those who have a problem with them. If this turns into a FastCat or Gideon bashing thread then it will be closed.

Most of us have seen this type of thread before. It usually turns into a thread that adds nothing to the knowledge base of this forum and is actually quite counterproductive to the goals of the forum. This type of thread is not why most people come to CF, to read this kind of soap opera stuff involving personalities.

Lets be polite, respectful and fair with each other. Please don't force the moderators to have to close this thread. This is the first and last warning.
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Old 07-01-2009, 14:02   #20
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Octopus:

If you read the blog in its entirety, I get the clear impression that these customers, being relative new to sailing, have been lead to believe and expect that they were dealing with a proffesional outfit. The facts seem to tell a story more comparable to a Laurel and Hardy show.

Sure all boats have issues, snag lists are created and worked through in a focused manner, more snags appear and get sorted, or at least this is what is expected from a proffesional supplier. Sadly this doesn't seem to be the case here. Loads of kit have been installed and the yard obviously haven't even bothered to do a test, the owners have found the fault when they tried to use the equipment.


I think that one of the last paragraphs from the latest blog update is very telling:

Quote: There was a final point I added here - a rather impassioned and scathing rant about the benefits of transparency and honesty and the foolishness and shortsightedness of treating your customers like mushrooms (feed them on sh*t and keep them in the dark) - but Iíve changed my mind. For now Iíll save it. Unquote

The honesty issue is one I have repeatedly taken issue with. Gideon claims that the customers are happy, and that the delay was only 5 months..... This was directly refuted by the owners on another thread.
How would you treat a supplier who repeatedly lies to you?

This kind of behaviour by anyone is unethical to say the least IMO, and as several forums are being used by this gentleman as one of his primary marketing resources, I for one, feel that there needs to be a balance between claims and facts.

Back to my original questions.... Should they be offered a full refund?

Alan
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Old 07-01-2009, 14:35   #21
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I just said leave specific personalities and manufacturers out of this. I also just said if you have a beef with a specific personality or manufacturer then take it elsewhere. This is not the forum for it.
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Old 07-01-2009, 14:35   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic cat View Post
Loads of kit have been installed and the yard obviously haven't even bothered to do a test, the owners have found the fault when they tried to use the equipment.
... and you're telling me this is unusual?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic cat View Post
Back to my original questions.... Should they be offered a full refund?
No

Should they ask for a full refund? Possibly, but that's up to them and it's not for us to speculate on. This boat is their baby too and they seem to be enjoying the birth.

Doubtless there is a contractual agreement in place and if they want to they can seek redress within the terms of the agreement and under the law of the land.

I've been in two similar situations concerning housebuilding. In one we worked through the problems as a team with the builder, in the other we ended up in court. In the former case I would have been outraged if I had found out that people had been seeking to blacken the builder's reputation based on uninformed speculation. That builder became a good friend and someone I came to admire. It all depends on your relationship with the builder, the support they offer and the respect you have for each other.

Like I said, I vote for the closure of this thread. None of us know the full story, speculation is just idle gossip.

Chris
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Old 07-01-2009, 14:48   #23
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