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Old 04-08-2008, 19:50   #121
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Truthfully, I do not find any of the comments offensive. Now that might be because none of them are directed at me but I really do not think so.

This is the big world and what is thought of as direct but not offensive by some is terribly offensive to others.

In my experience Americans are very sensitive about what they see as strong language and then treat the person who has "offended" as if they have lost control and are irrational. I suppose that will offend the Americans that read it (oh well).

Here in Australia the self same words are seen as just everyday banter with no offense either meant or taken.

When the two groups are mixed it can lead to some very funny results.

They are just words. Read the content. Enjoy the technical debate.
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Old 04-08-2008, 21:00   #122
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Yeah, get over it. You turn people off this site with all that dick-waving.

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Old 04-08-2008, 21:02   #123
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Hey DtM, we'll be in Sydney over summer - wanna drag?


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Old 04-08-2008, 21:13   #124
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Are you sailing up?

We will certainly be around over Christmas.

daniel
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Old 04-08-2008, 21:45   #125
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Down. She's in Mackay at present.
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Old 05-08-2008, 01:43   #126
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oram mango

just watched the vid of the oram mango doing 18 knots ! brilliant, but what is it ? links anyone ?
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Old 05-08-2008, 02:02   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewke07 View Post
the original question of thie thread was........

Fast Cruisingcatamarans? How fast?
How fast is the fastest you have sailed with your cruisingcatamaran?

Brand, Model, wind, speed?

All of this "expert" testamony is giving me a headache. This simple question asked for our experiences at sea. Period.

Boys, boys, boys. An online war benifits no one and will more than likely keep many an experienced multihull sailor from sharing their sea knowledge with others.

The tone of the Multihull section of this forum needs to change.
Here, here.
Finding out everyone's top speed is fine and as a number of other posters have said it's probably not as important as light air speeds but its fun in a lads down the pub situation which is why I enjoy this forum.
BigCat, there is no doubt you have a good grasp of boat dynamics and the theory behind it but the reason for my original post was to ask that some of the in-depth analysis is taken elsewhere.
Let me give you a scenario, Four mates down the pub enjoying a beer after a good days sailing. They are chatting about, how fast they went that day, Fred is looking for a new folding prop and doesn't know which one to buy and did you see the bow bunny on that Tri with the big fenders? Normal banter with technical detail, opinions and a bit of fun. In walks another aquaintance during the prop discussion and then pipes up with, Bob's prop is no good because it has an approach angle of 32 deg which unless it's 37.25 deg won't perform as well as type X which has an internal concavity of blah and a requires blah revolutions to open blah, blah. Unfortunately everyone gets really bored and we don't get to discuss the fenders!
Educating people who want educating is great but there is a time and place for it. What I'm personally looking to avoid is each thread turning in to either a full blown, technical analysis slanging match or the old favorite Multi-Mono debate.
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Old 05-08-2008, 02:47   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaero View Post
Here, here.
Finding out everyone's top speed is fine and as a number of other posters have said it's probably not as important as light air speeds but its fun in a lads down the pub situation which is why I enjoy this forum.
BigCat, there is no doubt you have a good grasp of boat dynamics and the theory behind it but the reason for my original post was to ask that some of the in-depth analysis is taken elsewhere.
Let me give you a scenario, Four mates down the pub enjoying a beer after a good days sailing. They are chatting about, how fast they went that day, Fred is looking for a new folding prop and doesn't know which one to buy and did you see the bow bunny on that Tri with the big fenders? Normal banter with technical detail, opinions and a bit of fun. In walks another aquaintance during the prop discussion and then pipes up with, Bob's prop is no good because it has an approach angle of 32 deg which unless it's 37.25 deg won't perform as well as type X which has an internal concavity of blah and a requires blah revolutions to open blah, blah. Unfortunately everyone gets really bored and we don't get to discuss the fenders!
Educating people who want educating is great but there is a time and place for it. What I'm personally looking to avoid is each thread turning in to either a full blown, technical analysis slanging match or the old favorite Multi-Mono debate.
That sums it up beautifully. Hopefully people take note.

If I am looking for serious discussions on design I would spend more time at boat design net and if I am looking for a bunch of over aggressive "people" having a pissing match I would go to sailing anarchy. Maybe others could do the same.

Mke
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Old 05-08-2008, 03:45   #129
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Bob Perry (Designer) summed up the speed issues for the Gunboat 62 (regarding the Heineken regatta race ) on the sailing anarchy cruising forum with the following.....

quote
....
I have never seen a big cruising cat sail to the same level of performance as a good monohull of the same size. But, if one could I suspect the GUNBOAT would be the one that could.

unquote.
NOt really relevant - it transpires that Bob Perry was comparing - paraphrasing his words fat french cats against high performance monos. On that basis I can but agree with him I would expect a good 40 ft racing mono to blow the doors off a FP lavezzi. But I cant see thepoint in the comparison.

What I and most here are interested in is comparing the boat that I and my wife would consider buying for cruising. I am pretty sure we werent thinking about a boat where you cut the toothbrushes in half.
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Old 05-08-2008, 04:30   #130
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just watched the vid of the oram mango doing 18 knots ! brilliant, but what is it ? links anyone ?

I thought it was 20. Is this a game of chinese wispers
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Old 05-08-2008, 04:45   #131
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I think a critical issue for me is - can I sail this boat with myself and my good lady, if it needs more than two crew - no matter how many hulls it has I cant really consider owning it. I think this is very critical in assessing speed, I need to know what speed I can do with the two of us, safely and without tiring out.
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Old 05-08-2008, 05:03   #132
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just watched the vid of the oram mango doing 18 knots ! brilliant, but what is it ? links anyone ?

It's a Bob Oram design called the Mango. We were doing 16 kts by the way . It's the smallest of his cruising designs at 38 feet, but it is a very small 38, probably half the size (and weight) of any production 38. Still has two queen berths though.

Bob has a website, but it's pretty basic, he's not a great fan of the internet, and some friends set the site up for him as a favour: Bob Oram Design

The actual boat in the video is this one: Bob Oram Design For Sale: 38 Mango - Tribute

It's no longer for sale though, it has been sold. Great boat, the surveyor's report had one item: the flares were just out of date.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:25   #133
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When you're sailing at the speed of light.....EVERYTHING IS OUT OF DATE!!!!!!!! nice video
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Old 05-08-2008, 08:27   #134
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Back on topic--sailing performance of a Lagoon 420, excerpted from a full review here: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...s-5250-61.html

Very under canvassed. 420’s have been bashed in this respect, so let me elaborate. Sailing to Anegada with 15kts wind and 3 to 4 ft seas 60 deg on the starboard bow, we were making 5 to 6 kts. A Lagoon 440 zipped past us luffing her jib. We paced the monohulls. She pointed ok for a cat, tacking through about 100 deg. Another day, I tried for a max speed run with wind 25 kts gusting to 30 kts running with quartering 4 to 6 ft seas. We sailed for roughly 19 miles like that, jibing from broad reach to broad reach (heaven). She held about 9 kts, or about 8 kts regenerating up to 15 amps per motor. She peaked out at 10.8 kts. I think I could have coaxed another knot out of her, but I didn’t want to risk breaking anything. Under similar conditions last year, Waypoint, a Lagoon electric 410, held 10.5 kts, peaking at 13.4. For tradewind cruising, this should be a relatively easy fix, calling for a bit more canvas up front.

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Old 05-08-2008, 09:17   #135
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Since my comments usually involve technical details concerning yacht design or construction, those not interested can put me on their 'ignore' list. Many people are interested in these details, however, judging by the number of people who post questions or comments concerning technical issues.
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