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Old 14-12-2015, 14:44   #346
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

Usually 10% of the time motoring at 6 -6.5 knots on that trip which is much slower than we sail. Hull speed is just over 8 knots and is easily reached in most conditions.

So we motor fairly slow which slows down the average.


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Old 14-12-2015, 14:45   #347
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

What years have you done which rallies?


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Old 14-12-2015, 15:28   #348
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunawayC47 View Post
Hull speed is just over 8 knots and is easily reached in most conditions.
You really don't have a hull speed, per se.

We don't like rallies. We joined the 2013 SDR just to get free moorings at BEYC. Never again. Too much trouble. Too much organization for us. Incompatible with the real cruising lifestyle. Rallies are for sissies.

Dave
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Old 14-12-2015, 15:45   #349
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

Looking at the numbers on Multihull Dynamics I would imagine the Conser 47 is substantially faster than the Catana 471, but not nearly as comfortable.


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Old 14-12-2015, 17:55   #350
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

Very much on topic, I recently crewed on two deliveries of cruising cats: 1) from the Ches Bay to Lake Worth, FL, coastal, west of the Gulf Stream, but non-stop, and 2) a short trip from Annapolis to Dennis Pt Marina off St. Marys River in Southern MD off the Potomac River.

The boat models are not relevant. Either of these boats can make 200nm + days in the right conditions.

The first delivery (5 days) was about 95% motoring and the second (12 hours) was 100% motoring. Why? Weather. There was just no wind. High pressure made for comfy weather but no wind. For sure both crews would have preferred sailing but the weather gods dictated otherwise. Average speeds? About 6.2 and 6.5 kts, respectively. A Gunboat would have fared as well. An AC cat would have had to be towed.

Count me as a skeptic when people claim 200nm day averages on long passages. Outside the trades it's just very rare and requires a fast motoring speed if the average includes total ground covered.

Dave
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Old 15-12-2015, 05:47   #351
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

With the Caribbean 1500 or the Salty Dawg Rally are 1365nm direct route and 1450-1500 sailed route with the easting included. Completing the trip in 6.75 to 7.5 days on 4 trips works out to around 193-213 nm sailed per day. The Outremer 51 just completed the trip in 6.9 days.

Almost all performance cats sail much faster than they motor. Yes most cats have much larger sleeping quarters than my Conser 47 which was originally designed as a day charter boat to sail 25 knots with 25 passengers on board. Yes they have done that! Top speed on 3 of the boats I know is over 30 knots GPS. One was a cruising boat with diesels based in Newport during the Ensenada race. The other 2 are the Paragon boats in Hawaii. Check out the pictures in the Sailing mag article from Aug 2003. That's fast.

Those who don't know will doubt this but it is true.


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Old 15-12-2015, 06:21   #352
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

Yes, good times indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunawayC47 View Post
The Outremer 51 just completed the trip in 6.9 days.
An acquaintance 471 completed the route Nov 17 in 7 days. They likewise had good weather and minimal motoring.

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Old 15-12-2015, 06:43   #353
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

I've just spent the last 15 minutes reading about the Conser; that thing is a beast. Very nice boat and very much in the mold of what I would like.

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Old 15-12-2015, 20:42   #354
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

After 14 years of coastal racing on 52' Afterburner (fastest coastal cat on the west coast) I can claim to know something about wet uncomfortable fast sail boats. I just finished the delivery on my new cat Wahoo from Tortola to Ensenada (Ventura soon). Wahoo is a fast cruiser, a carbon Schionning GF 1400. At 47' she is light in accomodation, with 2 queen cabins, 2 fore single cabins, one head, one galley and a salon/bridgedeck cabin. She has 2, 21hp diesels. We had one 300 nm day in the trades with way too much sail up all night. 200+ nm days in the trades were easier. In the Pacific it has all been up wind and motor sailing. We had 13 hours sailing doing 11-13 North of PV. Hit 20 surfing in the Atlantic and in squalls in the Pacific. Mostly 6-8 knots motor sailing in 5-12 knot headwinds. We did a bit under 6 days Chiapas to Puerto Vallarta, one fuel stop in Acapulco. And a bit under 6 days PV to Ensenada, one fuel stop in Turtle Bay. We were blessed with good weather. In comparing boat performance you can't go too wrong looking at sail area, weight and waterline. I have the rating software for our local race org. if you want to get detailed in comparisons. Comfort underway and a good autopilot are not to be underestimated.
I knew John Conser in the old Ventura days, pre-accident. Is he still around?
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Old 16-12-2015, 08:54   #355
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

Yes John is still around and kin Costa Mesa with his wife Gerri. He has been dealing with some heart and tumor issues in the last 2-3 years and has not been sailing much. His last sail that I know of was on The Salty Dawg Rally aboard my cat Runaway a Conser 47 that John helped me stretch the sterns to 50'. He still has a young spirit at heart.

I have learned a great deal about how to make sail boats go fast from John. Many of the ideas he has proposed have been way ahead of their time and may still take many years to become available to the market place. He is still busy designing some new projects. He can be contacted at johnconser@gmail.com.

We all wish him well with his current health issues. He is truly a one of a kind!


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Old 16-12-2015, 13:41   #356
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

Hey RunawayC47,
For those of us who have tried to find info online about the Conser 47 to no avail, would you kindly offer some info for the masses?
Headroom in the salon/pod?
Headroom in the hulls?
Bed length?
Bridge deck clearance?

Thanks. I'm 6'7" and would love to know just how I would get along on one of these puppies.
Can I stand anywhere besides out on deck?




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Old 16-12-2015, 20:46   #357
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

Headroom salon 6'2 hulls 6'8". Bridge deck 16-24" depending on loading.


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Old 16-12-2015, 20:51   #358
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

Bed length around 6'6". Not sure I am 5'10". There is a 2 shelf closet at the foot of the bed that is 18" deep 18" wide meant to hold clothes books or a tv.


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Old 16-12-2015, 20:53   #359
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

Here is a pic of my Conser 47/50 on the hard. Click image for larger version

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Old 17-12-2015, 09:02   #360
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

Solarbri,

If you ever get over to Maui you can sail on a Conser 47. We go there nearly every year for a week at our timeshare and though I am cheap I always spend the ~$100 or so to take the day sail over to Lanai on Paragon's Conser. I like my sailing fix and its a good snorkel & beach-walk trip the wife enjoys. I think we hit 17 knots once but sometimes the wind isn't there and we only max out at 8 or 12 and sometimes motor a bit as well (we always go in November, other months may be sportier). If its calm they'll stop in the middle of the channel and you can swim in really deep and blue water. They used to have and maybe still do have shorter, cheaper afternoon "speed sails" where they have gone much faster but I've never done them as the day trip is a good combination for us. Its not a cattlemaran as there usually are only 15 to 25 people aboard. Everyone gets to know everyone chatting on the way over and i've been allowed to helm/sail the boat quite a bit. Nice crew! Paragon's bridge deck cabin is set up for charter so its an open back and has nothing but a big table and bench seats all around with galley in one of the hulls. I think it also has at least 2 double/queen berths as well. I remember seeing a C47 for sale 5 or 10 years ago and I think its bridge deck cabin was a bit more cruisy. Maybe thats the one Runaway bought. The bridge deck slams sometimes and flexes the floor but the food has never fallen off the table. Its not a big deal, just an occasional surprise. It also has one large outboard in the center near the stern with a centered helm above it. I think other Consers are different. You should be able to google Paragon-sailing-Maui and find them. For sailors its the best trip on Maui that I've found. I have no connection to Paragon, just a happy customer.
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