Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

[cruiz9]

All this talk about outright speed is good for some peoples egos, but for the majority of distance cruisers is not top speed but comfortable cruising speeds in winds that are most commonly found or sought out by cruisers.
Sure my boat can do 20+ knots ,its built and designed for it ,but i'm in it for the long term and dont want to stress the boat or crew when cruising.
Whats more important is what the boat can achieve in light conditions with out having to revert to motor sailing.
A good efficient hull design with light displacment really comes into its own in light conditions which we so often find ourselves in, especially in the tropics. And in heavy conditions we just reef down to keep speed managable,down wind it is a dream to sail and very easy on the auto pilot as it tracks like it is on rails.
The only down side, anything under 10knts of boat speed it is positivley boring to sail as it is so smooth and quite.
It is quite easy for us to get 9 knts boat speed out of 12 knts of wind with just a main and small jib,would probably get an extra couple of knts with a screecher.
Just because you have a boat capable of speed dosnt mean you have to use itall the time,but its sure as hell nice to have it when you feel like an adrenalin rush,and sometimes its hard to resist.
I've Attached you tube video of the boat sailing in light winds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA1Ta03VQXA

[lateral]

Is this some kind of cryptic quizz...
Or you be at the rum?

Schionning Wilderness 1620 Catamaran THOR - YouTube

[RunawayC47]

Originally Posted by thorcat

All this talk about outright speed is good for some peoples egos, but for the majority of distance cruisers is not top speed but comfortable cruising speeds in winds that are most commonly found or sought out by cruisers.
Sure my boat can do 20+ knots ,its built and designed for it ,but i'm in it for the long term and dont want to stress the boat or crew when cruising.
Whats more important is what the boat can achieve in light conditions with out having to revert to motor sailing.
A good efficient hull design with light displacment really comes into its own in light conditions which we so often find ourselves in, especially in the tropics. And in heavy conditions we just reef down to keep speed managable,down wind it is a dream to sail and very easy on the auto pilot as it tracks like it is on rails.
The only down side, anything under 10knts of boat speed it is positivley boring to sail as it is so smooth and quite.
It is quite easy for us to get 9 knts boat speed out of 12 knts of wind with just a main and small jib,would probably get an extra couple of knts with a screecher.
Just because you have a boat capable of speed dosnt mean you have to use itall the time,but its sure as hell nice to have it when you feel like an adrenalin rush,and sometimes its hard to resist.
I've Attached you tube video of the boat sailing in light winds

You are very right. I used to always try to go fast for the first few years entering many racing and winning most. We always talk about max speed but the real determination is how many miles a day when cruising in normal conditions on all points of sail and above all how comfortable is the ride. I have a monohull friend of mine who refers to my cat as the magic carpet ride. Speeds in the mid teens are easy with moderate winds with glasses of wine on the table without surfing. On multiple 1000 mile plus Atlantic sailing trips we always average 200 nm per day made good and that includes up wind and no wind. Of course we are always very overweight with cruising gear. We all love to sail downwind of course.

When you see a boat sailing, look at how she cuts the water, the bow wave, the stern wave. It will tell you much about the hull resistance. With a good hull design you can easily sail above true wind speed in light air using the apparent wind.

We are lucky to be sailing at a time where some catamarans are being designed with the right combination of speed comfort and safety. I look forward to seeing the new designs and sailing them if possible. In the end it does come down to price which is why I have sailed my cat for 11 years cruising and racing for over 40,000 nm.

In time well designed cats will be the norm not the dockominiums we see generally for charter. They all have their place and purpose. Most importantly just get out there and sail. We must all make the most of the time we have. Sail fast Live slow as they say.

When you see a fellow cat out there say hello. We are a small but growing family of cat sailors.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by thorcat

All this talk about outright speed is good for some peoples egos, but for the majority of distance cruisers is not top speed but comfortable cruising speeds in winds that are most commonly found or sought out by cruisers.
Sure my boat can do 20+ knots ,its built and designed for it ,but i'm in it for the long term and dont want to stress the boat or crew when cruising.
Whats more important is what the boat can achieve in light conditions with out having to revert to motor sailing.

Hear him! Hear him!!

We will be the first to acknowledge that thorcat's Schionning 53 will pass us, but it seems we will both be sailing with the same attitudes. Comfort over speed for us, any day...and including (or even especially) in light air with NO diesels!

We aspire to Runaway C47's 40,000nm (only 18,000 here, so far, in ~2 years) and we also embrace his advice...

"When you see a fellow cat out there say hello. We are a small but growing family..."

[christova]

The guy riding this cat looks pretty nervous to me.. hahaha

[lolodoc]

Originally Posted by Karletto

our family catamaran was a HIRONDELL 23 but today is an old timer; speed was max 10kns with sails only; first owner sailed from England to Adriatic sea with it

Hi Karletto,
you have? had? a Hirondelle catamaran. Is one for sale in your neighborhood?

[beiland]

Originally Posted by ldrhawke

Right on!

Designer comments on ,"Longer is Better"

Obviously light material in construction of any cat helps, but at a certain point it make no economic sense. When mainly trying to keep a cat light, by using exotic new materials, that are costly to purchase and install; it quickly gets the point that it makes far more economic and performance sense to simply stretch the boat a few feet instead.

Striving mainly for lightness, by continually making structural sections thinner and lighter can be dangerous. At some point, even though they may have adequate measured strength to ultimate failure, there is the unanswered question of material fatigue from cycling and age.

There is also the comfort factor which isn't easy to measure or place a value on. A cruising catamaran can become too light. It then becomes akin to riding in a large Hobie cat, just look at the large ocean cat race boats as they bounce across the waves. A heavier cat is more stable and does not bounce off the waves like a cork, making the ride less physically and mentally fatiguing. Plus, shorter boats are less stable and hobby horse much more easily.

Also, often wave sound levels inside a lighter constructed boat go up. Plus, thinner poorer insulted hulls can sweat and cause mildew/odors to develop inside the boat. Thin cabin roof materials also transfers the suns heat more easily to make the cabin less comfortable. I've seen pictures of used cats that the owners have covered the complete cabin ceiling with tin foil trying to keep the suns heat out.

Isn't this the Cruisers Forum? I'm all for keeping the weight off and the performance in a catamaran, but sometimes I think this site sounds more like the Racers Forum?

The humorous part is to see the cruiser that spends $100,000's more to get a short lightly constructed cat and then loads it down with a Gen set, AC, Washer/drier, etc; only to end up with a mediocre performing catamaran in the end.

Found this thread tonight when I was following some leads to photos of Crowther's gamefishing cat Tigre.

Couldn't pass up emphasizing this posting,...it is so true.

[trimaranfanatic]

Atlantic 42 sailor easy low to mid teens across from sf to hawaii on reach with cruising stores. 20-25kn wind true. Moderate sea state. Reefed.

[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by trimaranfanatic

Atlantic 42 sailor easy low to mid teens across from sf to hawaii on reach with cruising stores. 20-25kn wind true. Moderate sea state. Reefed.

Are you claiming an average speed of "low to mid teens" with continuous 20-25 kts true over that distance? Or top speeds of "low to mid teens" whenever you had 20-25 kts true on a reach for portions of that distance?

Dave

[RunawayC47]

With favorable wind and sea conditions which are common on trade wind routes averaging mid teens is possible. I had a sail up the east coast a few years back using a small as metrical spinnaker with winds on the rear quarter. Apparent wind was between 15-18 knots and steady. We we cruised for 36 hours between 12 going up to 20 knots going down slowly overtaking the waves surfing down the front side. Truly one of my greatest sails. We had a crew of three sailing from Key Largo to Ny. Probably had about 1 knot of current with us on average. One of the crew became a multihull lover and just recently bought a Neil 50.

The Atlantics are fine boats. Properly sailed I would not be surprised at all.


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[2Hulls]

Originally Posted by RunawayC47

With favorable wind and sea conditions which are common on trade wind routes averaging mid teens is possible. I had a sail up the east coast a few years back using a small as metrical spinnaker with winds on the rear quarter. Apparent wind was between 15-18 knots and steady. We we cruised for 36 hours between 12 going up to 20 knots going down slowly overtaking the waves surfing down the front side. Truly one of my greatest sails. We had a crew of three sailing from Key Largo to Ny. Probably had about 1 knot of current with us on average.

I won't dispute your claim, but if you had been taking advantage of the Gulf Stream on that route you could have been picking up around 3 kts average all the way to Virginia Beach before the stream turns too far east.

Regardless, San Francisco is a long way from the trades and I'm looking forward to a response from that poster. Having done numerous long distance passages myself, I am suspicious of claims of high average cruising speeds over long distances. I don't have a slow boat and the fastest long distance passage (over 1000 nm) I've ever made was 7.5 kts average. That was from St. Thomas to Norfolk which included a 48 hour period covering 438 nm. Absent that sprint, that passage probably would have been more like my typical long passages - averaging around 6.5 kts. The biggest determinant of fast long distance passage speeds is not the boat - it's the weather.

Dave

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by lolodoc

Hi Karletto,
you have? had? a Hirondelle catamaran. Is one for sale in your neighborhood?

The Tiki 21 will touch 15kts.. the Tiki 26 the high teens.. lets put it this way.. I've overtaken commercial shipping in the English Channel on one.. admittedly full sail in an F7 but.. hell it was fun..
Had a Catalac 9m go over 18kts...

[RunawayC47]

In 3 Caribbean 1500 and 1 Salty Dawg Rally we have averaged 8.5-9.4 knots making the trip apox 1500 miles sailed in 6.75-7.5 days. When there were very light winds we did motor at 6-6.5 knots. On one trip there was a 50 mm day due to large head seas. Every trip had its detours due to weather conditions. We never used our large head sails at night and stayed with the self tacking jib.


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[2Hulls]

Anything under 8 days for the south bound route is very good time for a cruising cat. But re-calculate your average speed using nautical miles if you want it in knots. Hint >> 1500 is not the distance from Hampton Roads to Tortola in nautical miles.

Dave

[RunawayC47]

Yes but it is the apox number of miles sailed. Our route is always east towards Bermuda and then south to take advantage of the prevailing winds. Actual rum line of 1300. Adding course and tacks for wind shifts brings it to around 1500nm.


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