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Old 10-03-2011, 14:32   #226
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

Some on this site are fond of referring to Race results. I actually think thats a bit pointless as it takes no account of crew size experience - amount of money spent on sails etc, but never the less.

Free spirit, fantasia, fritz the cat and Multihull yacht sales are all different boats, but all very much cruising cats. All of them were lightyears in front of a 36foot Jeanneau and a 12 metre adams for example.
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Old 25-03-2011, 11:46   #227
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Seems to be a comprehension problem here.

The poster you're referring to said 20 knots SURFING. Can you surf 24 hours a day?

BTW a knot is a nautical mile per hour, not a kilometer per hour.

And your mate who ALWAYS gets 200 miles a day - how much of that does he sail? I seriously doubt he SAILS 200 miles per day every day.

(Are you talking about nautical or statute miles here? Everybody else is talking nautical miles.)

On an Oram 39C we sailed across the Gulf of Carpenteria averaging 8 knots over 350 (nautical) miles.

That included reducing sail to just a part furled headsail at night - the headsail was torn at the luff so we had to keep a couple of turns round the furler. In the daytime we'd fly the screecher. We actually slowed down to avoid arriving in pitch darkness too.

I haven't done any 24 hour runs in our boat yet. So far we've always got where we're going quicker than that.
I have sailed consecutive comfortable 200nM days on open ocean on the same Oram 38 boat in cruising mode- autopilot, reading books, no spinnaker, reefing down at night. More to the point- same ocean upwind a 183 nM day with autopilot set at 35 AWA. Obviously more than 200nM should be easy downwind...

More important than top speed is the comfortable quick cruising speed when you can laze around , cook a meal and read a book and know that the boat is happy and safe even if there's a bit of a wave or gust. On this boat I feel that is at about 9 or 10 knots, a wave plus a gust will increase that to 13 or 14, a lull and another wave will drop it to 7. I tend to reef above these numbers and add sail below them. My previous boat was as fast (F25A) but the comfortable cruising speed of the Oram is a knot or two higher. I don't know if there's a term for this speed and it is probably an individual matter but if I buy another boat, I'd pay much more attention to this 'groove' speed than the top speed, although they are related.
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Old 25-03-2011, 14:42   #228
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

Hi Sharkbay, good to see another Happy Oram owner aboard!

The boat I sailed across the gulf wasn't your's. It was a 39C launched just a couple of years ago. We crossed the gulf the year after your boat did. I believe we had nicer weather on our trip.

I sailed with Bryan on your boat in the Hog's Breath series a few years ago. Was very impressed.

You might be interested to see some (very short, taken on a still camera with not enough memory for long vids) video I took on the way to the Whitsundays on your boat.



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Old 26-03-2011, 12:13   #229
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

We've only had our cat for 6 months but we did hit 12 kt's in 25 kt's of breeze running down wind with only our main sail up in 7ft wind waves and we were dancing around the cockpit yelling YES YES. This was done with all our crusing gear, including dingy and things like crab pots on board and 3 anchors, ect. I can't waite to see how fast we sail with our new 420 sq ft screecher sail and the main sail. I just talked to the sailmaker about the wind speed to fly our new screecher sail and he said to keep it up in under 27 kt breezes, I'll bet we hit 16 kt's or better.
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:35   #230
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

Hello Freetime, this subject has certainly generated some spirited responses. To answer your question and perhaps offer some guidance. I took delivery of my new Lagoon 400 hull number 93 back in August last year, I have only sailed in our local bay so cannot advice as yet on long haul ocean trips, the picture I have attached I know is not that clear however I think you can make out 8.6 knots SOG in 22.9 knots of wind, that afternoon we were typically seeing speeds in a range of 7 to 8.9 knots . I have attached another picture showing our screecher up and you can see the sea state, not sure if it was the same day but conditions were much the same, the Lagoon also sails well in light winds of 7 to 12 knots generally generally half wind speed plus a knot, in winds in the teens I always see around 7 knots I have to point out that we are in our late sixty’s and have had no previous big cat experience, so this year is all about learning the craft’s systems etc. I do feel we will coach a bit more speed out of our craft as I gain more skills in fine tuning the sail settings, I have learned the sea state effects speed especially when motoring, a recent trip with smooth sea’s and 2 to 5 knots of wind when motoring at around 2200 RPM (40 hp yammar’s) yielded about 7.5 to 8 knots burning around 8 LPH both engines, however on another occasion we experienced a unpleasant night bashing into a 25 to 31 knot headwind in rough seas best we could achieve was about 4.5 knots which gave a reasonable ride, that night it took about nine hours to get back to the comfort of our marina, needless to say we were really pleased when that ride was over, but part of the learning curve. So the above has been my experience so far, I must point out that I took about seven years to make a decision in that time I studied other production cat’s went on various test sail’s, frankly the speeds I saw were much the same, some of the speeds reported by others 16 / 17 knots is way faster than my craft. I too did fret over how fast the craft will be but after now actually owning one I can advise it is the big picture you should be concerned about, but that is another story. Still on the speed subject I am currently waiting for a quote on a parasail see http://www.istec.ag/us/products/parasailor.html there is a you tube video of a Lagoon 400 with only the parasail up on a run claiming 15 knots, ummm............... Regards Peter
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Old 14-05-2011, 10:59   #231
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

We have a Dolphin 460. Our best speed was 14.2 knots in 17-19 knots of true wind at an angle of 50 degrees. No surf (we were going across the bank between the the Ragged Islands and the west side of Great Exuma).

Our "sweet spot angles" are between 40 and 80 degrees apparent. In that range we, if trimmed right can achieve 60-70% of true wind.

Past 100 degrees we start slowing down- 40-50% of of true wind.

Always lots of admiring monohulls skippers of us when we are going upwind. But if trapped by islands or reefs and we have to run downwind, the shoe slips to the other foot when the mono's all start popping their spinnakers and leave us behind.

You really need daggerboards to achieve the higher percentages- but they do cut down on the room. Of course that keeps us lighter like cats should be.
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Old 14-05-2011, 11:04   #232
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

By the way- our Dolphin is stock with no racing sails and the crew has limited experience. (my wife has two years experience and I, not a whole lot more).
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Old 19-05-2011, 20:05   #233
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

Gunboats rock, but for those of us with lesser dollars, we love our Sud Composites Switch 51. The prior owner had her up to 24.9 knots, while we've topped out at 19.8 knots.

Several years ago, during the Transcaraibes De Passion rally, this catamaran won every single leg. On the leg from Puerto Rico to Cuba she finished 6 hours ahead of her closest competitor, an Outremer 53 catamaran. She averaged 16 knots for 12 hours!

We raced her in the 2007 Antigua Sailing Week in the cruising catamaran class. We won every race, and corrected out in every race over every boat (over 250) in our fleet.

Two hundred mile days are easy and frequent with a decent breeze. And the best part is that we can do this with only the two of us on board -- no need for additional crew! You might think, well, this is a racing cat. Not so. She is a luxurious high performance cruiser designed for short-handed sailing by Marc Van-Peteghem and Lauriot Prevost who have designed all of the Lagoon catamarans. The Switch is a Lagoon on steroids. She was built with super high-tech construction and carries dual carbon fiber daggerboards, so she points like a bandit into the wind.

Anyone wanting to experience this fun, the boat has just returned to Ft. Lauderdale and is currently for sale. Visit our website at Switch 51 for more information and photos.
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Old 20-05-2011, 09:49   #234
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

The Switch is a very nice looking boat. After a while you can see speed of a cat by just glancing at her lines, the shape of her hulls, the space and bridgedeck. Actually I'd say it looks more like a St Francis 50 on slimfast rather than a lagoon.
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Old 20-05-2011, 09:57   #235
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

rockerdar, you've got a beautiful boat! I've always like the Switch 51's. They seemed to me to be a pretty optimal blend of performance and comfort. Just outside of my budget.

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Old 20-05-2011, 12:30   #236
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

Last weekend on our little Gemini 105MC we had 20kt's of breeze and sailing into the wind at 30 to 40 deg's we hit 14kt's for a steady 6 hours
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Old 20-05-2011, 16:22   #237
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

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Last weekend on our little Gemini 105MC we had 20kt's of breeze and sailing into the wind at 30 to 40 deg's we hit 14kt's for a steady 6 hours


.................
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Old 06-06-2011, 16:10   #238
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

Bob Oram Design

Some performance figures …


“Out of the Bag’” (a 44C) has just done Chagos Archipelago to Rodrigues, Mauritius – 1010 miles – in 4 days and 10 hours. The best daily was 240 miles in 24 hours, giving an average of 10 knots. Experienced sailors will know that to average 10 knots, the boat has to be sailing at 12+ knots a lot of the time. This is with Bill and Gene aboard and in full cruising mode, 25 knots of wind , 2 reefs and little jib.
Other figures received recently were from Kees on “Tribute”, a much smaller Mango 38′. He achieved 215 miles in 24 hours on passage to Indonesia from Australia, which is an average of 8.9 knots. I’m not sure if Kees was single handling or not. Again this was with full cruising gear, 20+ knots of wind, miserable sea state and conservative sailing.



Some performance figures … « Bob Oram Design
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Old 08-06-2011, 00:28   #239
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

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Bob Oram Design

Some performance figures …


“Out of the Bag’” (a 44C) has just done Chagos Archipelago to Rodrigues, Mauritius – 1010 miles – in 4 days and 10 hours. The best daily was 240 miles in 24 hours, giving an average of 10 knots. Experienced sailors will know that to average 10 knots, the boat has to be sailing at 12+ knots a lot of the time. This is with Bill and Gene aboard and in full cruising mode, 25 knots of wind , 2 reefs and little jib.
Other figures received recently were from Kees on “Tribute”, a much smaller Mango 38′. He achieved 215 miles in 24 hours on passage to Indonesia from Australia, which is an average of 8.9 knots. I’m not sure if Kees was single handling or not. Again this was with full cruising gear, 20+ knots of wind, miserable sea state and conservative sailing.



Some performance figures … « Bob Oram Design
Nice set of figures. It appears as though webejammins Gemini is a little faster.

I'm always amazed at how much a race tracker can slow a boat down.
The only race results for an Oram I can find is for Swiss Chriss' strangely named '7609" in the 2009 Darwin Ambon race where he averaged around 6.3 knots and held off 2 other cats by about 1.5 hours after 4 days of racing, to avoid coming last.

Out of interest, I had a conversation the other day with another sailing cat owner after a lovely 60 mile spinnaker run. The owner who is best left unnamed commented that" it was a lovely sail as he only had to run one motor."

I dare say what constitutes sailing and how the average speed is measured is a matter for personal interpretation, or so it seems.
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Old 08-06-2011, 01:49   #240
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Re: Fast Cruising Catamarans - How Fast ?

Not long ago you seemed to find it incredible that I could sail to windward in 8-10 knots of breeze. Is your boat really so hopeless a sailor that you can't even manage that?

If so, it's no surprise you'd find these numbers hard to grasp. You really need to experience a catamaran that can sail. It would be quite a revelation to you.

As for racing results...

"
Congratulations to Bill Webb, an Oram 44′C owner, who has just taken out first place in the Multihull Class of the Borneo International Yachting Challenge 2010.
G’day Bob,
Just a short note to let you know that we have just won the Borneo International Race with Out of the Bag against a fleet of 10 other multis.
Our handicap was the highest of entries as follows:
1. Out of the Bag – Oram 44C – 0.800
2. Truest Passion – Seawind 1160 – 0.605
3. Windy Spirit – Grainger 42 ft – 0.751
4. This Way Up – Grainger 42 ft – 0.651
5. Cool Bananas – Admiral 50 ft – 0.623
6. Jacana 2 – Simpson 34 ft – 0.766
7. Catimini- 40ft French Cat – 0.607
8. Katani – Crowther 55 ft – 0.668
So you can see that the handicapper was not very kind to us.
However, we obtained line honours in every race and won all trophies for first place ......"
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