Fast, Comfortable and Cheap.

[ImaginaryNumber]

Originally Posted by Palarran

I'm wondering if you have been on the boat. The pictures are mostly of the exterior and don't show much detail. What does show looks pretty rough in my opinion - like it was cheaply built at home. Are there berths on board? How many for a 50'er and at least one head per hull? Galley, Nav station?, anything that would actually make it a long term desireable cruiser? I don't personally understand the tiller's and then the wheel. And the hard top bimini looks very close to the cabin top as to not allow a view. What does it have for motors? $500k can buy a pretty fast purpose built catamaran.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

The finish of that particular boat isn't really relevant, AFAIK it's not for sale anyway. It's the design I was talking about.

It's proven to be an extremely fast boat, without the need for expensive exotic materials. A family has lived and cruised aboard for several years, while winning races.

I would have thought the finish would be relevant depending on how your comparing "cheap".
Fast - sure.
Comfortable, well, lots of people live in tents and don't complain.
Cheap - sometimes it's worth a few extra bucks to make a boat look not so cheap.

I don't personally see this example fulfilling the three out of three dream.

[Teleman]

Fantasia is a great boat. I've seen her here in Airlie Beach for several years now, competes with full-on race boats while being a permanent family liveaboard/traveller.

Nothing of that size and level of performance sail/rig is "cheap".

[Seaslug Caravan]

Originally Posted by Palarran

I would have thought the finish would be relevant depending on how your comparing "cheap".
Fast - sure.
Comfortable, well, lots of people live in tents and don't complain.
Cheap - sometimes it's worth a few extra bucks to make a boat look not so cheap.

I don't personally see this example fulfilling the three out of three dream.

Yes , finish is relevant to some. I have been aboard the boat and it is agricultural compared to some.Nothing wrong with that if its your thing.
Is it a cruising boat? It carries minimalist tools and spares so its hardly loaded to cruising trim. Will it still perform when loaded with all the toys and necessities? Probably the same as any other cruiser with the same LWL.
The race results are generally after IOMR corrections are applied so it sails well to its handicap. It certainly isn't the fastest boat out there and Andrew takes his racing seriously and is a good sailor. Generally only needs to finish around mid fleet to win on handicap. He pushes the boat hard in the heavy stuff.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan

Yes , finish is relevant to some. I have been aboard the boat and it is agricultural compared to some.Nothing wrong with that if its your thing.
Is it a cruising boat? It carries minimalist tools and spares so its hardly loaded to cruising trim. Will it still perform when loaded with all the toys and necessities? Probably the same as any other cruiser with the same LWL.
The race results are generally after IOMR corrections are applied so it sails well to its handicap. It certainly isn't the fastest boat out there and Andrew takes his racing seriously and is a good sailor. Generally only needs to finish around mid fleet to win on handicap. He pushes the boat hard in the heavy stuff.

Fantasia very frequently wins races outright. Line honours. Against boats designed and built purely for racing. Like Morticia, BOSS racing etc.

And very often beats boats that cost much much more, like the G-Force boats.

Is it a cruising boat? They live aboard, have done for years, and have cruised and travelled internationally on her. If that's not a cruising boat, I don't know what is..

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Palarran

I would have thought the finish would be relevant depending on how your comparing "cheap".
Fast - sure.
Comfortable, well, lots of people live in tents and don't complain.
Cheap - sometimes it's worth a few extra bucks to make a boat look not so cheap.

I don't personally see this example fulfilling the three out of three dream.

Whatever.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan

Yes , finish is relevant to some. I have been aboard the boat and it is agricultural compared to some.Nothing wrong with that if its your thing.
Is it a cruising boat? It carries minimalist tools and spares so its hardly loaded to cruising trim. Will it still perform when loaded with all the toys and necessities? Probably the same as any other cruiser with the same LWL.
The race results are generally after IOMR corrections are applied so it sails well to its handicap. It certainly isn't the fastest boat out there and Andrew takes his racing seriously and is a good sailor. Generally only needs to finish around mid fleet to win on handicap. He pushes the boat hard in the heavy stuff.

Seriously do you just make stuff up. It astounds me who many haters there are out there on every issue. Andrew and his family have lived aboard full time for years, I think that makes it a cruising boat irrespective of your tool inventory, though I am sure you are well qualified there.

Hammo Elapsed times - Race 1 she was 3 mins behind MOJO and Chill Pill and a long way in front of Renaissance. Race 2 a long way in front of Renaissance again, and let me assure you that Hodgo takes his racing seriously as well. Long way in front of Farrier RX and the super light Cut Snake Race 3 - same story in fact finished within 3 seconds of Chill Pill and well in front of Mojo, Renaissance the Farrier, Cut snake etc.

Yes it isn't the fastest boat out there but it isn't a mid fleet fleet handicap sandbagger either.

Probably the same as any other cruiser with the same LWL.

I don't think so, the Catanas up there doing the cruise series are similar sizes and significantly - I mean significantly - slower and yes I am aware of the the different rules for each group, then again a Seawind 1160 is comprehensively flogging them as well, so I suppose that means its very easy to do?

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by ImaginaryNumber

That doesn't look comfortable for the helmsman.

Sounds to me that it only scores on one of the 3, fast. Cheap and nasty as home builds tend to be does not sound to me as cheap in a good way.


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[waikikin]

All looks cool to me. Seems like a great family celebrating a terrific lifestyle and sharing it, seems like three good things right there.... & on a great boat that leaves most behind.........

Jeff

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

The finish of that particular boat isn't really relevant, AFAIK it's not for sale anyway. It's the design I was talking about.

It's proven to be an extremely fast boat, without the need for expensive exotic materials. A family has lived and cruised aboard for several years, while winning races.

Just proves the old adage still applies.

You can get 2 out of 3. They choose fast and cheap and sacrificed on comfort to get them.

No hating on them. If that's what makes them happy, good for them. It's your assertion that they have magically got all 3 that is incorrect.

[Serapium]

I find myself dumbfounded by what some people consider cheap. $300,000+ is anything but cheap.

[mikereed100]

What a beauty. I'm envious of you guys in Oz with all that eye candy floating around.

Cost is relative and while 300 - 500K may not be 'cheap', consider that that is what you would pay for a plywood Wharram of similar size. Comfort too is relative, but I would argue that any 50' cat, regardless of amenities, will be comfortable.

[Serapium]

Cost is indeed relative. It may be useful to establish some comparisons though in the interest of establishing a sensible range to define 'cheap'.

As an example, I recently purchased a 46' trimaran with five staterooms, two full heads, a roomy salon and galley, and a very comfortable enclosed 23'x8' pilot house for $43,000. By the time my family of 6 is comfortably sailing the Caribbean I expect to have something akin to $60,000 invested after attending to the necessaries. Even then, I would consider total outlay to be pretty squarely in the 'average' category.

'Cheap' is the guy whose story I read that bought a 42' Piver for $12,500, spent $5,000 on a basic refit, and set sail south. Last I heard, he was living on the hook in paradise and completely happy on a monthly budget of $500-$700.

I would say that once there are six figures in the number you are well into the 'expensive' category. Anyone contemplating a purchase of $300,000 - $500,000 is almost certainly in the top 1-2% wealthiest people on the face of our planet.

I guess it's all about perspective. I'm of the opinion that most people in the western world have perspectives that are completely out of proportion with the reality of the world in which they live.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Just proves the old adage still applies.

You can get 2 out of 3. They choose fast and cheap and sacrificed on comfort to get them.

No hating on them. If that's what makes them happy, good for them. It's your assertion that they have magically got all 3 that is incorrect.

Explain to me how they have sacrificed comfort?

Actually what IS comfort? Does having a nice shiny finish on a boat make it more comfortable? I'm not sure how it would.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Explain to me how they have sacrificed comfort?

Actually what IS comfort? Does having a nice shiny finish on a boat make it more comfortable? I'm not sure how it would.

Compare that to a condomaran of similar size and it is readily obvious they sacraficed comfort.

The adage doesn't say if you cut price and improve performance, comfort drops to zero. Its just that to increase two comes at the reduction of the third.

Again nothing at all wrong with what these people are doing. Just your assertion that they have beat the 2 out of 3 adage.