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Old 19-08-2015, 15:14   #31
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Re: Fast, Comfortable and Cheap.

I guess there's no pleasing some.


If it was a Gunboat 62 for $100,000 it wouldn't be fast enough. "Clearly they sacrificed speed for comfort."


Or cheap enough. "You can buy a 30 year old ferrocement boat for much less"...


Or comfortable enough, compared to say, Hemisphere. Sailing Yacht - Hemisphere - Pendennis Shipyard Ltd - Completed Superyachts on Superyacht Times .com


"Clearly they sacrificed comfort for speed and cheapness"....
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Old 19-08-2015, 15:32   #32
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Re: Fast, Comfortable and Cheap.

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Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
That doesn't look comfortable for the helmsman.

Sounds to me that it only scores on one of the 3, fast. Cheap and nasty as home builds tend to be does not sound to me as cheap in a good way.


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Better cheap the way they do production boats? Spend the money making them pretty, but skimp on materials and construction?
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Old 19-08-2015, 16:58   #33
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Re: Fast, Comfortable and Cheap.

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Compare that to a condomaran of similar size and it is readily obvious they sacraficed comfort.

The adage doesn't say if you cut price and improve performance, comfort drops to zero. Its just that to increase two comes at the reduction of the third.

Again nothing at all wrong with what these people are doing. Just your assertion that they have beat the 2 out of 3 adage.

So what makes the condomaran comfortable? Is it the shiny finish and plush cushions that make it comfortable? Or maybe the fact it has terrible ventilation and relies on a generator and Ac to maintain comfort? To some, the need for all the luxuries of shoreside living makes a boat comfortable, while to others it's the ability to go without the shoreside luxuries that make their boat comfortable.


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Old 19-08-2015, 20:18   #34
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Re: Fast, Comfortable and Cheap.

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To some, the need for all the luxuries of shoreside living makes a boat comfortable, while to others it's the ability to go without the shoreside luxuries that make their boat comfortable.
What an astute observation, SMJ, and succinctly phrased!

Good one...

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Old 20-08-2015, 03:51   #35
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Re: Fast, Comfortable and Cheap.

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So what makes the condomaran comfortable? Is it the shiny finish and plush cushions that make it comfortable? Or maybe the fact it has terrible ventilation and relies on a generator and Ac to maintain comfort? To some, the need for all the luxuries of shoreside living makes a boat comfortable, while to others it's the ability to go without the shoreside luxuries that make their boat comfortable.


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Old 20-08-2015, 04:30   #36
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Re: Fast, Comfortable and Cheap.

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
I guess there's no pleasing some.


If it was a Gunboat 62 for $100,000 it wouldn't be fast enough. "Clearly they sacrificed speed for comfort."


Or cheap enough. "You can buy a 30 year old ferrocement boat for much less"...


Or comfortable enough, compared to say, Hemisphere. Sailing Yacht - Hemisphere - Pendennis Shipyard Ltd - Completed Superyachts on Superyacht Times .com


"Clearly they sacrificed comfort for speed and cheapness"....
Where do a I buy a 62' gunboat for $100k?

That's the whole point of the adage. Gunboat sacrifices on price in an effort to keep both luxury and speed up.

You can nitpick over what constitutes comfort/luxury but the point still stands. You used an adage that you clearly don't understand.

These people on the other hand appear to understand and have made trade offs based on it.
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Old 20-08-2015, 14:41   #37
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Re: Fast, Comfortable and Cheap.

I'd suggest you don't understand the meaning of the phrase "In my opinion.".


It amazes me that people can criticize a boat's comfort, without ever having been on it. But that's the norm for this forum I guess.
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Old 20-08-2015, 17:38   #38
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Re: Fast, Comfortable and Cheap.

The comfiest boats usually use household style/size items like full size standard mattresses & lounges etc. 50 foot cats usually can accommodate these furnishings with ease and a little thought. one of the comfiest deck layouts will have a few bean bags/sunbergs.... just about any boat can carry these...
40-50' cats that "really" sail have a generally comfortable motion especially when sailed easy..
High gloss & fancy taps are "luxury" not "comfort"
Clearly some attribute terms incorrectly, the comfort of a comfy sofa is the same when in a mansion or shack, the faster passage time in a real performance cruiser relates to comfort in anchoring earlier, less noise in motoring... exhaust...
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Old 20-08-2015, 17:50   #39
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Re: Fast, Comfortable and Cheap.

That's the way I see it Jeff.
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Old 20-08-2015, 17:58   #40
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Re: Fast, Comfortable and Cheap.

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That's the way I see it Jeff.
Well considering our extensive experience in the field we must be correct "IMO"

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Old 20-08-2015, 19:33   #41
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Re: Fast, Comfortable and Cheap.

Obviously what one considers comfortable depends on ones life experiences.

As one spends a lot of time seated , does Fantasias seating look comfortable?

Very comfortable for those of us used to sleeping on park benches , I would say.

Is rowing ones tender everywhere comfortable, or is a motorised tender more comfortable?

Discuss
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Old 20-08-2015, 19:37   #42
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Cost is indeed relative. It may be useful to establish some comparisons though in the interest of establishing a sensible range to define 'cheap'. As an example, I recently purchased a 46' trimaran with five staterooms, two full heads, a roomy salon and galley, and a very comfortable enclosed 23'x8' pilot house for $43,000. By the time my family of 6 is comfortably sailing the Caribbean I expect to have something akin to $60,000 invested after attending to the necessaries. Even then, I would consider total outlay to be pretty squarely in the 'average' category.
Wow, this seems like an exceptionally good deal to me! From what I've read, and what I've seen on the (few) trimarans I've been on, they tend to be more limited in accommodation than cats or sometimes even monos of comparable length. Even given the fact that yours is 46' it sounds positively palatial. Any chance of a few photos and information on the model etc.?
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Old 20-08-2015, 20:34   #43
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Re: Fast, Comfortable and Cheap.

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Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan View Post
Obviously what one considers comfortable depends on ones life experiences.

As one spends a lot of time seated , does Fantasias seating look comfortable?

Very comfortable for those of us used to sleeping on park benches , I would say.

Is rowing ones tender everywhere comfortable, or is a motorised tender more comfortable?

Discuss
Well let's, seems like a day for it.
Looks like an area that family & friends might gather for a meal, I'm usually quite comfortable in those circumstances & those park benches come with cushions. As another owner of a Seawind 24 I know there's definate trade offs with that choice but sometimes being cool comes at a price The tender choice is a double edged one, rowing a good tender might keep you fit and some might be very comfortable with that, using an engine all the time may leave you in danger of becoming altogether too comfortable and lacking the fitness to row effectively if the fuel runs out, that could become uncomfortable in some circumstances.... there must be a way forward where a delicate balance might be found..... could it be?

Jeff.
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Old 20-08-2015, 21:16   #44
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Re: Fast, Comfortable and Cheap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan View Post
Obviously what one considers comfortable depends on ones life experiences.



As one spends a lot of time seated , does Fantasias seating look comfortable?



Very comfortable for those of us used to sleeping on park benches , I would say.



Is rowing ones tender everywhere comfortable, or is a motorised tender more comfortable?



Discuss

Yes, you may sit on your palatial 50' plush catamaran, looking down on those sailing their common, basic 35' catamaran as if they are barbaric. Yet next to you is a gentleman on his multi million dollar 85' catamaran looking down on you as if you have come from a third world country. It's all relative.


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Old 20-08-2015, 23:22   #45
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Re: Fast, Comfortable and Cheap.

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Probably the same as any other cruiser with the same LWL.
The displacement of "cruisers" with the same lwl can vary a lot, and hence their performance. Compare an Outremer 5X to a Lagoon 520. Both cruisers (by some definition). One weights 10000kg less than the other (in round figures)

One of the side effects of low cost (relatively) tends to be less stuff, which means less weight. No A/C, basic facilities etc all weigh less than having everything that opens and shuts.

This lack of stuff allows your cheap yacht to go faster than the expensive one with all the stuff, and it's cheaper because they didn't need to go high tech and high cost to stay light.
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