Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-04-2014, 19:28   #91
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Mooloolaba
Boat: Helia 44
Posts: 468
Re: Exposed Helm

Barra

Do you know anything about the Helia that has just been shipped from Mandurah to Brisbane.
__________________

__________________
cwjohm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 19:33   #92
Registered User
 
Barra's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: between boats
Posts: 808
Re: Exposed Helm

No sorry mate never saw a Helia here in the main marina so not sure what her story would be
__________________

__________________
Barra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 19:44   #93
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Mooloolaba
Boat: Helia 44
Posts: 468
Re: Exposed Helm

Barra

No problems. Was probably located at a private home in Mandurah. Easier to sell in Mooloolaba than Mandurah.
__________________
cwjohm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2014, 23:04   #94
Registered User
 
Barra's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: between boats
Posts: 808
Re: Exposed Helm

Yep that's a pretty big boat for these parts - wouldn't get under the bridge, sw1000 the most popular by far here.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
Barra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2014, 07:22   #95
Registered User
 
REsCat's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sarnia,Canada
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 216
Re: Exposed Helm

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Your not wrong at all, it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. Though you have to admit, the Outremers with the tillers and bulkhead helms are looking pretty sweet!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I totally agree with you that the new Outremer layout is the best state of the art solution and I would love those tillers!.... and at times I would love the bulkhead helm.
As many here discuss, the new designs are not all charter crowd/"condomaran" focused....

Bob
__________________
REsCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2014, 08:41   #96
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Winters cruising; summers Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 1,239
Re: Exposed Helm

I, too, like the Outreamer design - on the surface. Talking to Kent at the Annapolis show last fall while aboard the 5X, he described that the bulkhead helm on that model was an option to be installed in addition to the tillers. At the time I didn't think to ask how the bulkhead helm was linked to the rest of the steering gear, i.e., is it a cable system that has to move along with the rest of the linkage if you're steering from a tiller? If that was the case, I certainly wouldn't spend the money on that option unless I really wanted to decrease cockpit space. Why have all that extra mass and friction restricting the tiller feel? Perhaps it's hydraulic, which would eliminate much of the unnecessary involvement of the extra helm. But having a hydraulic system that has to interface with the mechanical tillers is exactly what I wouldn't want to have to mess with, especially when it has to operate two rudders. Perhaps it something entirely different - maybe somebody can describe it.

The tillers alone are the best solution for sailing enthusiasts - direct, mechanical, low friction linkage to the rudders. But guess where they have to be for that?

2 Hulls Dave
When it's snotty on one side, go to the other side.
__________________
2Hulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2014, 10:26   #97
Registered User
 
Cotemar's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Boat: FP, Helia 44 Evo
Posts: 5,717
Re: Exposed Helm

Exposed Helms are as useful as a broken ragtop on a car. You never want to be in one when itís raining and blowing like stink.

Itís a bad idea on an exponential scale.

Just ask the Tanning Mom
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Tanning Mom.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	18.9 KB
ID:	78688  
__________________
Cotemar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2014, 16:53   #98
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: Exposed Helm

Whilst I might agree with your sentiments Cotemar, you certainly can be blunt at times and perhaps disresptful of other opinions and choices.

With both Nautitech and Outreamer now offering Bulkhead helms perhaps we might also see that option with Catana sometime in the future.

The Outreamer solution is excellent.
__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2014, 16:58   #99
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 260
Re: Exposed Helm

Quote:
Originally Posted by downunder View Post
With both Nautitech and Outreamer now offering Bulkhead helms perhaps we might also see that option with Catana sometime in the future.
It doesn't look like it is happening anytime soon as the two new designs from Catana have exposed helms. Take a look at the new Catana 59. The Catana 53 is the same, only smaller.

Speed - Catana 59 - Catana - Catamarans
__________________
jostalli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2014, 17:07   #100
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: Exposed Helm

Quote:
Originally Posted by jostalli View Post
It doesn't look like it is happening anytime soon as the two new designs from Catana have exposed helms. Take a look at the new Catana 59. The Catana 53 is the same, only smaller.

Speed - Catana 59 - Catana - Catamarans
Perhaps we may see it in future. Certainly not yet.
__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 04:54   #101
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Winters cruising; summers Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 1,239
Re: Exposed Helm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
Exposed Helms are as useful as a broken ragtop on a car. You never want to be in one when itís raining and blowing like stink.

Itís a bad idea on an exponential scale.
I wouldn't expect someone who bought a Mahe to understand.

If they're smart, Catana won't change their designs in this regard. If this causes them to miss a few sales, oh well. They're not after that market segment.

2 Hulls Dave
__________________
2Hulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 07:41   #102
Registered User
 
REsCat's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sarnia,Canada
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 216
Re: Exposed Helm

^^

Bob
__________________
REsCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 07:41   #103
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wherever our boat is; Playa Zaragoza, Isla Margarita
Boat: 1994 Solaris Sunstream 40
Posts: 2,439
Re: Exposed Helm

Those who are taking such vehement opposition to twin aft helms may wish to consider the following:

1. Experience: How many of you have actually done any extended sailing on a catamran that was equipped with them? I suspect few, if any. On the other hand, those who own and cruise on cats that are equipped with them do have direct hands-on experience and are in a good position to assess the relative merits. So too are the owners of so many monohulls that are now equipped with twin aft helms. If these designs were such a disaster, don't you think that the word would have gotten around? Don't you think that more designers/manufactuers of monohulls would be moving away from them, rather than towards them? Or do you think that the purchasers of monohulls with twin aft helms - many, if not most of whom are not first-time boat owners, actually prefer them?

2. In terms of catamarans specifically, manufacturers such as Catana do not specify twin aft helms for no reason. They are certainly not cheaper than a single bulkhead mounted helm. Are they crazy? Are they committed to going out of business? In a word, no. Here are some attributes of twin-aft helms that make them attractive to a certain group of purchasers and hence, sensible for Catana even though they drive up the cost of production.

3. Performance: Catanas are not only more expensive than FP's, Lagoons and Leopards etc., they are also significantly faster. Understand that purchasers of Catanas are not just people with more money than purchasers of those other brands - for the same money they could have purchased a much more spacious cat from any of those manufacturers. The fact is that people who purchase Catanas are, for the most part, people who prioritize performance. In that context twin aft helms are the most logical and efficient set-up, even though they are more expensive to produce.

THEY PROVIDE BY FAR THE BEST VANTAGE POINT FROM WHICH TO ASSESS SAIL TRIM! While this may not matter to charter companies or those who desire a condo on the water, it clearly does to the purchasers of some cats. Does this mean that the owners of Catanas etc. are stuck out in the elements for endless hours while cruising? Of course not. The reality is that for most lengthy passages helming will be done almost exclusively by autopilot. Indeed, Maxing-Out circumnaviagated without ever having to be at the helm in bad, let alone life threatening conditions.

However, on those occasions when one is making a short inter-island passage or a day sail etc., how many of us would not prefer to maximize our performance? To not only reap the benefits of proper sail trim, but to display proper sail trim to others out on the water? How many of us do not engage in little 'races' against other boats on the same heading? And how often will these situations arise in comparison to having to helm for extended periods in bad weather?

4. Ease/safety in docking: Make no mistake, twin aft helms enable the helmsperson to get the best possible view of an approaching dock. This is particularly important in catamarans where the rather extreme beam can be not only intimidating, but can increase the risk of striking the dock, or pulling in too far away from the dock to tie up without assistance.

5. Ease for the helmsperson in boarding/exiting the boat when leaving or arriving at a dock. Again, it is much easier/quicker to get to an aft helm on the same side as the dock than it is to a bulkhead mounted helm, or a raised helm. Unless you always sail with sufficient crew, this can be significant in moderate to heavy crosswinds.

All boats (and virtually all design elements of boats) are to some degree a compromise. Depending upon one's priorities, twin aft helms have a great deal to commend them.

Brad
__________________
Southern Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 08:14   #104
Registered User
 
REsCat's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sarnia,Canada
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 216
Re: Exposed Helm

Thanks Brad! I enjoy your posts here and MH4U because they are consistently well expressed and accurate in thought IMO...

Bob
__________________
REsCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2014, 08:54   #105
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Exposed Helm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
4. Ease/safety in docking: Make no mistake, twin aft helms enable the helmsperson to get the best possible view of an approaching dock. This is particularly important in catamarans where the rather extreme beam can be not only intimidating, but can increase the risk of striking the dock, or pulling in too far away from the dock to tie up without assistance.
Not to pick nits, but this is only true if both helms have engine controls. Most do not.

Mark
__________________

__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
helm

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
weather helm, help ! gramos Monohull Sailboats 26 29-07-2008 21:15
Australian Designed Cats Helm Position ireaney Multihull Sailboats 11 01-04-2008 06:26
cabin exposed fiberglass... Prflyer1 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 15 17-05-2007 19:46
Mounting instruments at helm Biermann Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 20-01-2007 13:30
Windvane or auto-helm? kingfish General Sailing Forum 8 27-08-2004 10:15



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:47.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.