Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 21-05-2009, 21:38   #61
DtM
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Out of the Office
Posts: 908
Mark 424 you have got it exactly right.

The list of matters to be considered in a purchase is almost endless.

Some you will get what you want others you won't. You either choose to live with the little things which may not be perfect or you choose not to buy.

I enjoy my exposed helm. Sure there are times when it is a little wet and for those I have great wet weather gear and a sense of humour. A hat fixes the sun issue.
__________________

__________________
DtM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 12:26   #62
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,282
Re: Exposed Helm

Some curious postings - exposed helms have their advantage until you meet 'the storm.' Having been through one of these (over 70 knots, the max. the instruments could read) I would really hesitate to be so exposed as I really do not want the risk of being taken overboard.
__________________

__________________
Bulawayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 12:34   #63
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,334
Re: Exposed Helm

Once in a 70+mph micro burst, I had to be at the helm. No way I could see with rain being driven at that speed. I put some ski goggles on I had stashed and they really helped.....
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 23:32   #64
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark424 View Post

I agree with Brad. This is a recurrent topic and I think Dave from Maxing Out has commented before since his P-39 went around the world for many years with aft helms. I think he said he had his hands on the helm something like <0.5% of the time, or maybe it was measured in hours over a 10 year period.

Coming from a mono, exposed helm is more the norm. I can understand the logical arguments for the deck house mounted helm, but I have a couple problems with it in practice. (a) I don't plan to steer other than in extreme weather or docking, so what is most important is a place to stand watch. (b) If I'm at the dock, I'm usually concerned about one side and prefer to be in the corner where I can see what's going on. I know the gurus say that you should always be able to see all 4 corners - while you can see over 4 corners (really 3 if you have a genoa out), but you really can't see the corner itself which is what you want for docking. The beauty of a layout like the Privilege 39 is that it's trivially easy to walk side to side from wheel to wheel if you really need to see what's going on on both sides. (c) After chartering half a dozen different models over 14 years, I really don't like to sit up on the raised deckhouse mounted helms. All the minimalist benches are really lame. You have no support, not much of a back, etc for longer watches. You are usually a couple feet higher off the water than the aft deck level helm, which means that any pitching or rolling is amplified. I have yet to see any cat with a serious watch standing (sitting) chair like you'd see on a trawler, fishing boat, etc. Even with the bimini mounted helm, most people standing watch are not sitting in that chair unless you are in a crowded channel.

Fire away.....contrarian force field engaged.


Click image for larger version

Name:	image-3713808786.jpg
Views:	245
Size:	130.3 KB
ID:	56225

Is this what you mean? Note comfy helm seat with arms (ex Riviera), solid windscreen, clears all round, solid roof, hatch overhead. Very good for overnighting. It can be done on a cat!
__________________
Teeto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 05:24   #65
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,282
Re: Exposed Helm

The helm shown is very similar to what we built on our cat - we had armoured glass for the 'windscreen.'
In such weather, as I indicated, you cannot see a lot - even when a wearing scuba mask.
We also had a 'sunroof' for sight of the main sail. Personally, I have never docked with my genoa out - an interesting exercise I would imagine. I agree 99% of the time you rely on the autopilot - & when/if it fails I want to steer from a safe/protected position. The dog-house arrangement meets my expectations. After 7 years of constant sailing my autopilot never failed, I had two fitted but never used the second. Again, 90% of the time the weather was good - It simply scares me to think of a member of my family being so exposed. For me safety is priority, all other matters are easy to overcome with a little practice. I believe the risk is very small, but I prefer to avoid even this.
__________________
Bulawayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 05:29   #66
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,282
Re: Exposed Helm

Yeah, my wife or I were at the helm the majority of the time; with the autopilot engaged. I tried to keep watch (using a scuba mask) but it was challenging. We had a full dog house for protection - and this is a feature I shall fit on my next cat - the challenge is finding the right cat - so far all indications are pointing to a Privilige.
I dread to think of having to be at such an exposed helm in such weather. We only had this weather once in seven years, but you only need to be washed over-board once.
__________________
Bulawayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 11:01   #67
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,334
Re: Exposed Helm

One of the things I liked best about my cat was the high helm, under cover. That's cruising in style. Mine just had a canvas dodger/bimini setup with three panel rollup windshield. I thought the vision was great.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 13:44   #68
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,282
Re: Exposed Helm

Cheechako, What cat was it? Our next cat needs to able to be fitted with a hard top bimini and fixed windscreen, a main sheet traveller located aft of the cockpit (where it can be reached), solid grp below the waterline and no vertical saloon windows. The cockpit needs to have a walk aft through, too. We also want a waterline of 40ft-ish.We have had waves sweep right over us and a cockpit needs to drain fast. We don't want the helm above the bimini, either. The majority of the time the weather is OK - when the stuff hits our fan I want the easiest time possible.
__________________
Bulawayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 17:48   #69
Registered User
 
WeBeGone's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tacoma, Wa. USA
Boat: Irwin 52 & Catana 411
Posts: 20
Re: Exposed Helm

I wouldn't trade my outboards helms.

With my Catana in a stiff breeze, and helming from upwind, sailing this boat when she is hauling ass is better than flying my plane. The bulkhead helm boats I've sailed remind me of driving a station wagon

That is why I sail........otherwise I would just buy fuel for a comfortable trawler....
__________________
WeBeGone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2013, 03:32   #70
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Boat: none
Posts: 87
Re: Exposed Helm

One thing i learnt long ago spending many years as a commercial fisherman is to have suitable weather protection, it may be ok for weekend sailors or party boats to have the wind in your hair and get a suntan ,but when your on long passages especially in the tropics where its either blazing hot or pouring rain ,the fun of standing out in the elements wears very thin,as a skipper you need to look after the welfare of your crew and keep morale up, also a safety issue.

I may be biased but this is my ideal helm possy at the moment, has excellent alround visibility,can be completly closed up with rear clears,it has dual opening barn doors for easy access to the deck for tying up,all sail controls led into this helm , its also big enough inside for two people to helm ,a bed for the off watch crew and chart area large enough to open a full size chart,works for me.
__________________
cruiz9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-03-2014, 18:31   #71
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2013
Boat: Antares 44i
Posts: 162
Re: Exposed Helm

I agree - I want a helm that can be enclosed. Only the Antares and Privilege fit what I was looking for. I like the Catana, Nautitech and Outremer boats a lot, but took them off my list because of their exposed helms
__________________
EllesBelles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-03-2014, 01:19   #72
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,282
Re: Exposed Helm

The issue is hit upon beautifully in one response - style. However, there is no-one to see your great style when you are in the middle of bad weather. Magazine like Cruising World - more apt would be Charter World- promote/encourage these designs including the dangerous forward cockpit. Anyone who has undertaken proper cruising, not a little hopping, would find it hard to reach any other conclusion. We have seen people commence their circumnavigation on these grand charter specials only to realise very quickly their mistakes. The Catana type arrangement can be overcome tho' via the use of a reliable autopilot (preferably with a 100% back-up). My main issue are fly bridge type helm - CoG is raised, boom hard to access, etc etc. these are charter boats. There are still a fare few 'good' second hand cruisers out there but these 'new' designs are dominating due to the charter demand.
__________________
Bulawayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-03-2014, 07:23   #73
Registered User
 
REsCat's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sarnia,Canada
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 216
Re: Exposed Helm

As this topic has been and is discussed with other recent threads.... with regards to Catanas and having to "overcome" their helm arrangement...the owners of my sisterships or other model/size series report, with "few" exceptions that the aft helms are one of the their most appreciated features.

These boats are being or have been actively circumnavigated, "cross oceaned", continually lived aboard and regularly passaged 10+ days or more in all types of weather. The latitudes are primarily tropical/sub tropical as most cruising is done in the world.
If you are talking about higher latitude/sub arctic priority cruising then fully enclosed, barricaded, heated ,glassed helm areas certainly make more sense for the weather conditions typically encountered there.
If you are choosing your helm location for the once or twice "what if" hell weather scenario then you have made that issue a top priority consideration..."most" cruisers,full time liveaboards don't... from what I have observed/read.

If you have never actively helmed,cruised an aft helms boat in "all" weather conditions for any significant time then you really can't make an accurate assessment of the pros and cons of the arrangement...imho
Some aft helm arrangements are better designed and executed than others as has been pointed out in these discussions which is no different than with other types of helm layouts.
In the end ALL helm layouts are compromises to some degree.... most people on this forum and others agree on this fact.

Bob
__________________
REsCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-03-2014, 10:40   #74
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2013
Boat: Antares 44i
Posts: 162
Re: Exposed Helm

I see your point, Bob, and I think it's more a matter of personal taste and desire for comfort. I'll admit, maybe gender and age factor into it too.

My husband and I sail as a couple and we're no longer spring chickens. I do have a greater desire than him for more protection from sun, wind, cold and rain at the helm than when I was sailing in my younger years. We sail in the Med as well as the tropics and passages, so we like our boat to be prepared for a variety of weather conditions.

Later in our circumnavigation, we will have to decide whether to freighter our boat across the Indian Ocean to the Med (to avoid pirates) or whether to sail south around the coast of South Africa. That's the most extreme latitude we're likely to sail, and maybe up to Scandinavia someday. Even with this fairly temperate sailing, we will encounter enough conditions that we prefer the half up helm and the option to fully enclose the helm, and the cockpit.

As I said, age may be a factor too. I've paid my weather dues, and I'm not a complete weather wimp - I got to the top of Kilimanjaro in a 30-year blinding blizzard and I spent 8 years living in Minnesota. But when I finally got to choose where to live, on land I chose San Diego, and for my liveaboard yacht, I chose a half-up encloseable helm.

I wouldn't have sacrificed safety for comfort, but with the Privilege's half-up helm I can see very well, including both forward points of my hulls. How is visibility of the far side when you're so far aft on the other side on the Catana, Bob, or other two-helm boats...I've always wondered about that.
__________________
EllesBelles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-03-2014, 11:33   #75
Registered User
 
REsCat's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sarnia,Canada
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 216
Re: Exposed Helm

Priveliges are beautiful,quality built proven boats..good choice!
I have execellent 360 vision from either of my helms, headsails affect that of course (as they do on ANY boat) , my model series 1997-2002 had a great hardtop,softop design which allows this and then under Poncins' ownership and design changes, the hardtop and support structures blocked this 360 view....bad move IMO!
Now there are some on this forum and others that dont believe that fact...and their welcome to step aboard to see...
On our model boat if the weather is bad, in your face on one helm, you switch over to the other helm for a much different sheltered experience... thats a fact!
I have a removable sun shade over the helm, if needed and I wear a Tilley at times, or foul weather gear or just shorts,and sandals and everything in between.
I have as most of our sisterships, two complete independent autopilot systems, only one needed at a time and for the 95-99% of sailing,cruising the auto handles and steers the boat well.

Bob
__________________

__________________
REsCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
helm

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
weather helm, help ! gramos Monohull Sailboats 26 29-07-2008 21:15
Australian Designed Cats Helm Position ireaney Multihull Sailboats 11 01-04-2008 06:26
cabin exposed fiberglass... Prflyer1 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 15 17-05-2007 19:46
Mounting instruments at helm Biermann Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 20-01-2007 13:30
Windvane or auto-helm? kingfish General Sailing Forum 8 27-08-2004 10:15



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:36.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.