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Old 26-02-2012, 15:55   #196
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

How many times i've started my engine and sheeted in the main hard, stowed the jenny and motor-sailed to windward on my Adams 35 Mono, we would point to 28deg normally however most times returning from a race the wind was near dead on the nose and needed 20deg due to sea room.

Every boat is a compromise and since we've retired back to cruising sitting in an anchorage waiting for favourable winds isn't an issue anymore.

Why are Cats raising in popularity? That sitting (which is what most boats do 90% time anyway) is just SO much more comfortable....Cheers
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Old 26-02-2012, 15:57   #197
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

Why are cats more popular #1 advertiseing hype. #2 the extensive use of cats in the charter industry. #3 the apparent interior and real deck room. #4 the potential of the multihull preformance-very rarely realized in a over stuffed cat. #5 cats are different and that can be a sales point in a depressed market. #6 cat owners the new guys on the block are more vocal and willing to publicly defend their boats while mono owners don't neccesarily feel the need to do so.#7 a fat boxy cat is more like a house boat or a motor boat than a sail boat and a significant segment of the population must like that considering how many house boats and motor boats are sold.
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Old 26-02-2012, 16:03   #198
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
I did assume they were points you supported.

Yes of course why else post it - i loved the honesty and lack of rose coloured glasses when describing the windward performance and this fits in with my observations that most cruising cats motorsail to windward. Even the Dream Yachts (St Martin Charter company) Catana 47's and 50's :-( Of course 99% of the cats being charter cats they are in a hurry and these prod cats dont go to weather at all well and are dogs in light winds. Then the charterers are in a rush to 'do' the islands on their 10 day vocation. 90% of the private cats except the French owned ones (mostly Outremere) are Ex Moorings/Sunsail Lagoon/R&C or FP hardly performance cats doubly so as they are now liveaboard boats and well down on the waterlines so they are even slower than normal and from observation they tend to motor when it is a great day for sailing :-(
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Old 26-02-2012, 16:06   #199
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

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Originally Posted by eyschulman View Post
Why are cats more popular #1 advertiseing hype. #2 the extensive use of cats in the charter industry. #3 the apparent interior and real deck room. #4 the potential of the multihull preformance-very rarely realized in a over stuffed cat. #5 cats are different and that can be a sales point in a depressed market. #6 cat owners the new guys on the block are more vocal and willing to publicly defend their boats while mono owners don't neccesarily feel the need to do so.#7 a fat boxy cat is more like a house boat or a motor boat than a sail boat and a significant segment of the population must like that considering how many house boats and motor boats are sold.

The females like them
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Old 26-02-2012, 16:10   #200
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

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The females like them
One of the most important if not the most important point.
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Old 26-02-2012, 17:34   #201
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Originally Posted by Highland Fling

Yes of course why else post it - i loved the honesty and lack of rose coloured glasses when describing the windward performance and this fits in with my observations that most cruising cats motorsail to windward. Even the Dream Yachts (St Martin Charter company) Catana 47's and 50's :-( Of course 99% of the cats being charter cats they are in a hurry and these prod cats dont go to weather at all well and are dogs in light winds. Then the charterers are in a rush to 'do' the islands on their 10 day vocation. 90% of the private cats except the French owned ones (mostly Outremere) are Ex Moorings/Sunsail Lagoon/R&C or FP hardly performance cats doubly so as they are now liveaboard boats and well down on the waterlines so they are even slower than normal and from observation they tend to motor when it is a great day for sailing :-(
From our experience we have passed many monohullers who were motoring while we were sailing. We sail a Seawind 1000 and while shes not a race boat she does perform well. We were sailing yesterday in light air, 8-10 kts and were sailing in the low to mid 7 range. Not bad for light air and we also passed a mid 40' monohull who was motoring. Must not have been enough wind for them to sail.
Last week were were out in 10-12 kts wind. Going to windward with a 45' mono we were very slowly leaving him. He headed of on a broad reach and we followed. We were doing 8-9 kts and blew his doors moving at least 3 kts faster.
I haven't sailed any of the charter boats but have sailed past a few. It seems you must have a lot of experience sailing cats, can you tell us what kind?
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Old 26-02-2012, 19:30   #202
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

Good god! Have ANY of you actually read this thread from the beginning????

The answer is baby seats. It's that simple.

Please go back and read post #1, then go continue your non-relative arguments on some other thread.

Thread closed!

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Old 26-02-2012, 19:52   #203
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
It is, thank you. 10.41 knots is more than a knot under hull speed, so she doesn't even need to plane. As I wrote before, the better days are above 350nm and I know of one that is 384nm.

You need to read back on the heeling part though, because I stated to heel around 12-14 deg. When a cat heels 5 deg, which is more than double the heel of the cat at that point, not less than the cat as you try to put in my mouth with your sarcastic post

You are a bit shaken by the swiftness of the Sundeer, which is understandable, but don't forget that Jedi has a 64' waterline while most mono's that you may be familiar with are at say half that waterline. Twice the waterline gives twice the hull speed. Also, the Sundeer breaks about every racing rule. This gives her advantages that only few expect, because most boats, even cruising designs, are built to racing rules.

This is why your statement about placement in the Sydney Hobart race is completely wrong. The Sundeer, when racing, gets a penalty that makes it impossible to win on handicap.

cheers,
Nick.
I wasn't talking about handicap. I was saying that an average of 10.41 knots would get you around thrid place in the 2011 Sydney to Hobart on LINE HONOURS.

I'm sure the canting keelers carry a fair handicap rating too...
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Old 26-02-2012, 19:54   #204
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Good god! Have ANY of you actually read this thread from the beginning????

The answer is baby seats. It's that simple.

Please go back and read post #1, then go continue your non-relative arguments on some other thread.

Thread closed!

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Boy, you scared the whoopie out of me. I'm the OP, and it started about Charles Darwin, and the adapting of the species with the baby in the swing.

When you said "thread closed" I was ready to whimper "not AGAIN", till I read.....

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Old 26-02-2012, 20:05   #205
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
I wasn't talking about handicap. I was saying that an average of 10.41 knots would get you around thrid place in the 2011 Sydney to Hobart on LINE HONOURS.

I'm sure the canting keelers carry a fair handicap rating too...
Gee, how hard is it to read and understand me:

Quote:
Also, the Sundeer breaks about every racing rule. This gives her advantages that only few expect, because most boats, even cruising designs, are built to racing rules.
Quote:
This is why your statement about placement in the Sydney Hobart race is completely wrong. The Sundeer, when racing, gets a penalty that makes it impossible to win on handicap.
So, she can never race in class racing (not allowed in) and she can never win in handicap races because the design and systems are considered to give her an unfair advantage. You also seemed to have missed that I wrote that races are normally concentrated on upwind performance, while the Sundeer was designed on broad reaching performance, with upwind performance a weaker point for her length (I stated single digit speeds)

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 26-02-2012, 20:13   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj
Good god! Have ANY of you actually read this thread from the beginning????

The answer is baby seats. It's that simple.

Please go back and read post #1, then go continue your non-relative arguments on some other thread.

Thread closed!

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Six plus pages (for me) and you expect to be on topic - LOL

Maybe on the other internet...

Baby in a swing?

On a mono you could hang it from the end of the boom. Good fun, especially broad reaching in a swell with the occasional boom dip in the water! Who said heeling was bad - LOL

@Nick - i dont know how much more honest you can be about Jedi's sailing performance. Wanna race my Maxi upwind? Ahh, never mind you'll still kick my a$$...
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Old 26-02-2012, 21:02   #207
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

Nick,

I have been solid in the multi camp for my next purchase, then along you come, and basically remind me how fun and fast my old Cal 40 was, and I can live with the heel during a passage as it makes up such a small percentage of cruising. Besides, maybe I crave the womb because I liked sleeping on the lean, nicely cradled on both sides.

Here is the dilemma you getting me to think mono has put me in, for the same price as a 15 year old PDQ 36, I could also pick up a 20 year old Santa Cruz 50. You and I know which is faster by far.
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Old 27-02-2012, 02:37   #208
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

Apart from the obvious joy ow the stern, beam view of a mono. Especially a full,out racing job with everyone concentrating and hiking out as you sup a small beer or G&T ... There is also the flat aspect..

By beloved has arthritis in her hips.. We were about to give up sailing on account of the pain of standing on a sloping floor... Then we went flat sailing.. She even does a happy dance on board..
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Old 27-02-2012, 06:03   #209
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

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It seems you must have a lot of experience sailing cats, can you tell us what kind?

Well i am not happy to say i have a lot but for sure i have a significant amount probably more than your 'average' cat owner.

Cats i have sailed - well from memory

1. Most of the Prout cats before they went down the tubes and Broadblue took over.

2. Lagoon cats most of them from the 37 but not the 36 up to the L470 nothing more recent except the L420 Hybrid which has to be motorsailed 99% of the time - though you will never get a L420H owner to admit this. I had a quick look at a Lagoon 620 recently Was involved in a keel up renovation/total rebuild of a Lagoon 42 in the VI's

3. A few Shuttleworth 44 foot? cats models escape me ATM

4. One or two DAZ Cats

5. A few Erik Lerouge cats biggest fastest an INOUI 40

6. A number of Catana Cats 411 431 471 472

7. One or two Voyage cats 380 and 440

8. A number of R&C cats Moorings/Sunsail versions test sailing surveying NOT chartering. Rescued a wandering R&C 6200 recently.
I should have put in a salvage claim

9 UK Built Cats Catalac Solaris Heavenly Twins and of course a McD Iroquois

10. Chris White Atlantic 42

11. One or two UK home built cats the designer names are lost in the mist of time. I remember seeing a bow (well it was when installed) shackle from the mainsheet of one bent straight the pin long gone and the material was thicker than my thumb

12. Tornado Hobby Cat and Dart 18


There probably are few more that i have forgotten

I posted that one of the reasons for the popularity of cats is the ladies...........NOT in my world my Admiral does not like them she loves the way a monohull swoops through the waves not bounces over them and wants to be able to see where she is going which removes a lot of cats from our 'could be interested in' list then there is the significant cost of one that would keep us both happy. I have not given up yet but i think its a lost cause.

So there you have it a closet cat lover BUT a realsistic one who is not taken in by owners who tell fishy stories about their boats performance and manufacturers publicity blurb
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Old 27-02-2012, 06:46   #210
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

That's quite an impressive list of cats you've sailed. Are you a surveyor and were most these sails sea trials?
I would agree that the majority of cats built today are built around luxury and not performance. The older British cats were definitely overbuilt and under rigged and the charter boats probably the same but you mentioned a few cats that should be great performers. Namely the Shuttleworths, Daz cats and the Le rouge designs. How would you rate these as performance boats.
There's no doubt there are some cats that are dogs out there but to think they are all that way.......
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