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Old 24-02-2012, 21:59   #136
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

Was anyone beating their chest? I've enjoyed only monohulls to date, but going multi next time out. I'm hoping to enjoy the multi experience, but as much fun on the cheap I had in a Cal 40, the bar is pretty high. When living in Alaska, my motorhome was home, and any past full time has been in a mono, so I know I'll look forward to out stretching my arms and not come in contact with the borders of my living environment.

And Nick, before you jump in, I know I could stretch my arms in your boat.
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Old 24-02-2012, 22:02   #137
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Why do so many multi-hullers "beat their chests," appearing defensive? They don't seem to be happy unless everyone else becomes "multi-hulled" (or wished they were) so to assure themselves they made the right decision. Give us a break!

How was your last haulout?

I don't think any group of boaters wether sail, power, mono, multi are not defensive to negative comments by any other group.

Most people are very proud of their vessel as are you of your fine vessel.

Have you not read the threads on Hunters and Westsails They can get somewhat defensive.

Haulouts are not an issue in Aus.
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Old 24-02-2012, 22:03   #138
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

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Was anyone beating their chest? I've enjoyed only monohulls to date, but going multi next time out. I'm hoping to enjoy the multi experience, but as much fun on the cheap I had in a Cal 40, the bar is pretty high. When living in Alaska, my motorhome was home, and any past full time has been in a mono, so I know I'll look forward to out stretching my arms and not come in contact with the borders of my living environment.

And Nick, before you jump in, I know I could stretch my arms in your boat.
Agree i never saw it??? Why would a multihuller wish to convert anyone??? To each their own.
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Old 24-02-2012, 22:22   #139
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

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I don't think any group of boaters wether sail, power, mono, multi are not defensive to negative comments by any other group.

Most people are very proud of their vessel as are you of your fine vessel.

Have you not read the threads on Hunters and Westsails They can get somewhat defensive.

Haulouts are not an issue in Aus.
Keshi has a nice bottom, if I can say that without sounding sexist. As to most people being very proud of their vessel, I can honestly say I wasn't of my last vessel. Butt ugly and could consume 1,000 gallons of diesel per hour just to hold position against winds and currents.
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Old 24-02-2012, 22:38   #140
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
I don't think any group of boaters wether sail, power, mono, multi are not defensive to negative comments by any other group.

Most people are very proud of their vessel as are you of your fine vessel.

Have you not read the threads on Hunters and Westsails They can get somewhat defensive.

Haulouts are not an issue in Aus.
OK!
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Old 25-02-2012, 00:13   #141
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

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Why do so many multi-hullers "beat their chests," appearing defensive? They don't seem to be happy unless everyone else becomes "multi-hulled" (or wished they were) so to assure themselves they made the right decision. Give us a break!

How was your last haulout?

Did that yesterday. dried out on a beach at low tide, gave the bottom a scrub, cleaned out some skin fittings, pulled the rudders and greased their shafts... and it didn't cost one cent.
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Old 25-02-2012, 02:56   #142
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Of course the First is more performance orientated. Lagoons are primarily built for charter use. A better comparison would be an Oceanic, or just a plain Beneteau (whatever they call them). OR Hunter vs Lagoon.

Also , the heel angles you mentioned earlier are wrong. We RARELY heel more than 5-6 degrees. And whe we are, the mono's around us are well past 20'.

The fact is, we DO sail to windward, and stuff stays where you leave it.

We just sailed from Sydney to broken bay in a N/NE 15-20 knots, and this laptop was left sitting open on the table. It never moved.
See how difficult it is... you want a slower mono for comparison, while I would want a bigger one but settled on a smaller but faster mono instead. You'll never come to a "honest" comparison I think.

Heel angle: we're talking close hauled, right? If you're at 5 degrees heel then it isn't the Caribbean and I would be at 10-12 degrees or something. When we see 20 degrees heel at sea, you won't be able to follow us I think; it'll be 40 knots of wind, 16-20' steep seas on the nose.

But I know where the difference comes from: when you say "mono" you talk about the Westsail type of mono and I immedately agree that they heel like there is no tomorrow. They are very different from modern designs that are sailed as upright as possible for optimum speed. It isn't just a Sundeer that sails relatively upright... I didn't start about moving water ballast yet, which would take another 4 degrees heel away.

I agree that cats have evolved a lot since their early days, but so have monohulls in that same period. Just look at the difference between an '80s Whitbread racer vs today's Volvo Ocean machines. They are as different as a tri vs cat.

ciao!
Nick.
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Old 25-02-2012, 04:07   #143
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

The evolution of mono's is correct, Ocean Racers have become more 'skiff like' with plumb bows, long straight underbodies with flatter planning areas aft and high rigging loads, likewise modern catamarans also share these traits.

I say this without trying to win points for either mono or cat. Moveable ballast, canting keels the list goes on, they are all speed developments coming from skiffs,cats and ocean racers alike.

Long gone are the days of heavy displacement and a deep forefoot being pre-requisites of an ocean going mono and long gone are the heavy deep veed plywood multihulls.

Evolution at work....
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Old 25-02-2012, 04:45   #144
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

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See how difficult it is... you want a slower mono for comparison, while I would want a bigger one but settled on a smaller but faster mono instead. You'll never come to a "honest" comparison I think.

Heel angle: we're talking close hauled, right? If you're at 5 degrees heel then it isn't the Caribbean and I would be at 10-12 degrees or something. When we see 20 degrees heel at sea, you won't be able to follow us I think; it'll be 40 knots of wind, 16-20' steep seas on the nose.

But I know where the difference comes from: when you say "mono" you talk about the Westsail type of mono and I immedately agree that they heel like there is no tomorrow. They are very different from modern designs that are sailed as upright as possible for optimum speed. It isn't just a Sundeer that sails relatively upright... I didn't start about moving water ballast yet, which would take another 4 degrees heel away.

I agree that cats have evolved a lot since their early days, but so have monohulls in that same period. Just look at the difference between an '80s Whitbread racer vs today's Volvo Ocean machines. They are as different as a tri vs cat.

ciao!
Nick.

Well i did that comparing two cruiser charter orientated boats - a Beneteau Oceains 461 with a L380 and while i like the L380 ideal for a couple to wander around the Caribbean and up the ICW. A L380 is more expensive to buy and maintain and not nearly as roomy or as fast as the 461 on passage - and only wins IMHO in the Cockpit/Galley area. As for this crap about cats not heeling Aye Right - in a 6 foot Caribbean swell with cross seas with square Caribbean waves they certainly are not sailing on the straight and level and lets not even talk about pitching and hobby horsing when they have to motor or motor sail to windward - so you better tie your laptop down. Another myth is that you cruise up and down the Leeward and Windward islands on a balmy easy Caribbean trade wind broad reach I would of course love a Sundeer 64 :-)
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Old 25-02-2012, 04:59   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce
Why do so many multi-hullers "beat their chests," appearing defensive? They don't seem to be happy unless everyone else becomes "multi-hulled" (or wished they were) so to assure themselves they made the right decision. Give us a break!

How was your last haulout?
Why dont you decide whether you want a trawler or a sailboat. What you have is actually kind of a ridiculous design.
Now I don't feel that way I'm just using it as an example of what I've had to put up with for the last 20 years of catamaran ownership. Uneducated Ignorant statements. I don't consider it chest beating but standing up for my choice in boats. It's nice to see that every year there are more people flocking over to the multihulls.
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Old 25-02-2012, 05:03   #146
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

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Well i did that comparing two cruiser charter orientated boats - a Beneteau Oceains 461 with a L380 and while i like the L380 ideal for a couple to wander around the Caribbean and up the ICW. A L380 is more expensive to buy and maintain and not nearly as roomy or as fast as the 461 on passage - and only wins IMHO in the Cockpit/Galley area. As for this crap about cats not heeling Aye Right - in a 6 foot Caribbean swell with cross seas with square Caribbean waves they certainly are not sailing on the straight and level and lets not even talk about pitching and hobby horsing when they have to motor or motor sail to windward - so you better tie your laptop down. Another myth is that you cruise up and down the Leeward and Windward islands on a balmy easy Caribbean trade wind broad reach I would of course love a Sundeer 64 :-)
So in answer to the OP's thread "Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity"you offer the above reason????
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Old 25-02-2012, 05:14   #147
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

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So in answer to the OP's thread "Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity"you offer the above reason????

please pay attention at the back.............i already posted availability
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Old 25-02-2012, 05:26   #148
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

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please pay attention at the back.............i already posted availability
The amount of multi's built here in Australia for the charter industry would be insignificant, the majority are privately owned having never been used in charter.

Your point may be true in the Caribbean however there are other places in the world where multi's have experienced an increase in popularity, whilst banging your head you should perhaps guide your comments to the thread, as it was intended, rather than yet again using it as a platform for criticism of multi's?

I never read the thread as "LETS COMPARE YET AGAIN"????

Cheers Frank
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Old 25-02-2012, 09:57   #149
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

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The amount of multi's built here in Australia for the charter industry would be insignificant, the majority are privately owned having never been used in charter.

Your point may be true in the Caribbean however there are other places in the world where multi's have experienced an increase in popularity, whilst banging your head you should perhaps guide your comments to the thread, as it was intended, rather than yet again using it as a platform for criticism of multi's?

I never read the thread as "LETS COMPARE YET AGAIN"????

Cheers Frank
yes i noticed you had difficult with your reading - my advice relax a bit - read slower and take a chill pill

I was responding to another post that had (for pedantic multihull sailors) wandered off topic.

Also what a comment from a man sailing a Lagoon 440 the boat CNB designed for the charter market to replace the too expensive to build L470 that were sold at break even prices. Just becuase i choose to sail a Monohull does not mean i dont have extensive multihull experience. The reason the L380 was/is almost at 1,000 boats built was/is due to the demand from the charter market. Ausie cats have not penetrated the mass market like the French and South African cats have so while they may be big in Australia world wide they dont represent a significant percentage of the catamarans out sailing
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Old 25-02-2012, 13:12   #150
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Re: Explanation for the Increase in Multihull Popularity

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
See how difficult it is... you want a slower mono for comparison, while I would want a bigger one but settled on a smaller but faster mono instead. You'll never come to a "honest" comparison I think.

Heel angle: we're talking close hauled, right? If you're at 5 degrees heel then it isn't the Caribbean and I would be at 10-12 degrees or something. When we see 20 degrees heel at sea, you won't be able to follow us I think; it'll be 40 knots of wind, 16-20' steep seas on the nose.

But I know where the difference comes from: when you say "mono" you talk about the Westsail type of mono and I immedately agree that they heel like there is no tomorrow. They are very different from modern designs that are sailed as upright as possible for optimum speed. It isn't just a Sundeer that sails relatively upright... I didn't start about moving water ballast yet, which would take another 4 degrees heel away.

I agree that cats have evolved a lot since their early days, but so have monohulls in that same period. Just look at the difference between an '80s Whitbread racer vs today's Volvo Ocean machines. They are as different as a tri vs cat.

ciao!
Nick.
Not talking about Westsails, just your normal production boat - the Bene's Jeanneaus, Hunters etc... They all heel a lot more than 14 or 15 degrees, and they heel a HELL of a lot more than we do, while we are overtaking them to windward.
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