Expected costs of a 9 year old Lagoon 400

[chakil]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

We found ours in September, survey in October, closing in November, been on the hard for 8 months, 6 of them unattended in a marina in a foreign country 1000 km away, went in May to the boat and done the work there fore 2 months living on board, then finally got her into the water in July, sailed her for 6 weeks around the Med to a marina only 500km away in another foreign country for the winter, checked her up again after Xmas and been on board after New Year, left her for another 3 months at the dock, finally in Aplil this year moved aboard full time sailing, so about 1.5 years between buying and sailing, really needed the time to sort out my things. So nothing unusual or not doable.

But maybe you find another one next year. I would not search if I am not prepared to buy. You will miss opportunities and be sorry later. Just check out the market to get a feeling for the prices and opportunities. We missed two prospects, we bid, but someone else was quicker and payd the deposit. Luck is an important factor, there are not many on the market and we searched in Europe and America.

I dont know where you are from, but for EU citizens a VAT payd status is also very important, it means 20% of the costs, so a boat for 240k VAT payd is the same as one boat for 200k without VAT payd from the buyers point of view.

I have Turkish and Israeli passports and Portugese soon.
The boat is VAT paid in Turkey so no more tax for 5 years but the law has changed now and if it is a foreign flag you have to pay around %20 tax or you can use it with US flag. We are planning to stay 9 months in Med , 3 months with Turkish passports,3 months with Israeli passport and another 3 with Turkish passports.
On the other hand you are right , my wife tells the same,don't look at the boats we should not buy it now but thats the only dream left in my hands and keeping me alive or make me feel alive I must say. And as a life experience when I push too much for what I want so badly it always ended with loss in terms of money ..I had sport cars,motoryachts and always tried so bad to buy and sold for much less.. I know the catamaran is a similar toy and I don't expect to make money of it and this time its not only about me it is also about my wife and our savings.
I will be going to Greece next month and will try to check a few Catamarans when I am there.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by chakil

Why do you think so ? We are trying to make estimates and did you read what s/v Moondancer says? Isnt that a fact?
If this is ridiculous, what do you think of common saying that you may spend %10 of the purchase each year for maintenance?
We should make estimations which may have %5 room to be false but otherwise we may be broke one day and have to sell our boat for nothing.

A 9 year old boat is just barely broken in...to spend 10% of the purchase price on maintenance a year is ridiculous ..but if you think its ok do it...
What has the purchase price got to do with the cost of maintenance?

[chakil]

Originally Posted by Icarus

A 9 year old boat is just barely broken in...to spend 10% of the purchase price on maintenance a year is ridiculous ..but if you think its ok do it...
What has the purchase price got to do with the cost of maintenance?

I agree with you . .Its nonsense , its just a common saying.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by chakil

I agree with you . .Its nonsense , its just a common saying.

On a new boat there is depreciation of value, so you loose the 10%, also the purchase costs, the antifouling, watering, delivery... At some point the value remains stable, but you need to do repairs, the total cost of ownership lets say over 10 years may summ up. The fully equipped 400 with all the tax and delivery costs would probably cost for the first owner 400kEUR 10 years ago, he lost, if he accepts your offer, 185k, also had done haul outs, bottom paint, repairs... The euro 10 years ago had more purchase power than today because of inflation too. So 7..10% is not unrealistic. A used boat contains its resale value better, but also needs probably more repairs to keep it in shape. There is no free meal.

If you buy an used car, its is the same.

[riki]

Originally Posted by chakil

I dont agree , I just found a list in terms of years , What do you think?

Port Engine ............... $20,000 (15 years)
Replace Starboard Engine .......... $20,000 (15 years)
Replace Spars ..................... $25,000 (20 years)
Replace Standing Rigging .......... $10,000 (7.5 years)
Replace Running Rigging ........... $5,000 (5 years)
Replace Lifelines ................. $1,000 (7.5 years)
Replace Working Sails ............. $6,000 (7.5 years)
Replace Stack Pack ................ $1,500 (5 years)
Replace Gennaker/Code Zero/Furler . $7,500 (15 years)
Replace Ground Tackle ............. $3,000 (7.5 years)
Replace Fenders ................... $1,500 (10 years)
Install Solar Panels .............. $6,000 (15 years)
Replace Batteries/Cables .......... $4,000 (7.5 years)
Replace Bilge Pumps ............... $2,000 (7.5 years)
Replace Hoses, Plumbing, ...Seacocks, Through-Hulls ........ $5,000 (15 years) Replace All Cushions .............. $5,000 (15 years)
Replace Toilet/Hoses (Port) ....... $2,000 (15 years)
Replace Toilet/Hoses (Starboard) .. $2,000 (15 years)
Replace Offshore Life Raft ........ $4,000 (10 years)
Install/Replace Watermaker ........ $10,000 (15 years)
Replace Basic Electronics ......... $6,000 (10 years)
Replace Autopilot ................. $5,000 (15 years)
Install/Replace Radar ............. $3,000 (15 years)
Install/Replace SSB ............... $5,000 (15 years)
Replace Fridge & Freezer .......... $4,000 (15 years)
Replace Stove ..................... $2,000 (15 years)
Replace Windlass .................. $2,500 (15 years)
Rewire Entire Boat ................ $5,000 (15 years)
Replace Dinghy & Outboard (15hp) .. $10,000 (10 years)
Replace Winches ................... $12,000 (20 years)
Replace Hatches & Ports ........... $15,000 (20 years)

These prices are for refitting how many cats?

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by riki

These prices are for refitting how many cats?

I guess the prizes are reasonable including labor to do it. I dont think, the age is a problem so, some items can be repaired with repair kits, given proper maintenance. Winches can be serviced, even running rigging by stripping the mantle from the core and rebraiding, toilets too can be serviced with repair kits, impeller etc. , most of the work can be done DIY also. If you have a naked hull and whant to equip it to a cruising cat, and you cannot DIY, than the price tag may be what to expect.

[riki]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

I guess the prizes are reasonable including labor to do it. I dont think, the age is a problem so, some items can be repaired with repair kits, given proper maintenance. Winches can be serviced, even running rigging by stripping the mantle from the core and rebraiding, toilets too can be serviced with repair kits, impeller etc. , most of the work can be done DIY also. If you have a naked hull and whant to equip it to a cruising cat, and you cannot DIY, than the price tag may be what to expect.

Well, in my book most of the prices are at least 2x, others much more. Of course i consider as rule the DIY way but still: 6k for solar panels? 5k an autopilot?? 15k hatches and ports??? c'mon , with these prices after 15 years an average boat would worth nothing.
That said, i live in EU, can't say too much about prices in Usa, but there are always different paths to get at the same point.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by riki

Well, in my book most of the prices are at least 2x, others much more. Of course i consider as rule the DIY way but still: 6k for solar panels? 5k an autopilot?? 15k hatches and ports??? c'mon , with these prices after 15 years an average boat would worth nothing.
That said, i live in EU, can't say too much about prices in Usa, but there are always different paths to get at the same point.

I'm inclined to agree.

These prices are if you've never even seen/looked at the boat, let alone worked on it yourself.

At such prices the OP would be better off never having any work done on the boat and just scrapping it, and getting a replacement every 15 years or whatever his interval is. I'm surprised he hasn't got down replace mast and hulls on the list.

[Gin-N-Sonic]

Originally Posted by chakil

I have Turkish and Israeli passports and Portugese soon.
The boat is VAT paid in Turkey so no more tax for 5 years but the law has changed now and if it is a foreign flag you have to pay around %20 tax or you can use it with US flag. We are planning to stay 9 months in Med , 3 months with Turkish passports,3 months with Israeli passport and another 3 with Turkish passports.
On the other hand you are right , my wife tells the same,don't look at the boats we should not buy it now but thats the only dream left in my hands and keeping me alive or make me feel alive I must say. And as a life experience when I push too much for what I want so badly it always ended with loss in terms of money ..I had sport cars,motoryachts and always tried so bad to buy and sold for much less.. I know the catamaran is a similar toy and I don't expect to make money of it and this time its not only about me it is also about my wife and our savings.
I will be going to Greece next month and will try to check a few Catamarans when I am there.

My friend, perhaps it's time for you to have a very serious conversation with your wife and perhaps yourself.

The reason why I say this is it seems that your wife may be looking for something that is a constant.

Personally I lived aboard and managed a motoryacht for a long time, however, cruising on a catamaran with the wind as 80% of the propulsion, is quite different, it makes you feel even more alive. The world is at your fingertips and you can harness your own destiny to a certain extent.

Cruising, may become your constant, some places have things only accessible by boats, like the 365 islands of Exumas.

I think you may need to assess if that is your goal, I have learned one thing out of cruising, don't take it as lightly as whim, it's a full on commitment, it will take body, mind and soul but the rewards are neverending. But as humans, it is up to us individually to decide if this is what you want to do. If yes, share it with your wife, the rest will be easy because at that point, you have full support. You crave adventure, this is okay, it's just that you're now at a point where you just have to make a few simple decisions, simple but important decisions.

Remember, no one else in this world can actually perceive the rainbow exactly as you see, same for sunsets. When you make money, you trade your time for money, when you have money, however little or much, you're buying back time, I find for cruisers, this applies on all fronts.

By the way, you should really check out our Caribbean and the Polynesian islands, you might not want to go back home.