emergency steering on a catamaran

[David M]

Originally Posted by rickm505

I was curious about African Cats. When I visited the website I couldn't help noticing that the company is very proud that the small sailing Cat is sold out through 2011?????

Forgive me for suggesting that higher production may be in order.

The competition will take up the slack if they don't.

I think the trend in cats, for those that have millions of dollars, is away from floating condo's with dishwashers and clothes dryers and more towards high tech, fast cats with a degree of amenities. It may take Lagoon, et al, a while to figure this out. AfricanCat and Gunboat seem to have figured this out....they just need more "factories". At the very least, the world would be more interesting with large cats that go like hell.

[fastcat435]

We are presently building a bigger factory that will be finished in april / may 2008 and we will produce 3 models there , the 405 ( new Model ) the 450 ( lenthened 435 and the new 550. the 305 is out , we cannot afford to produce it , it is almost as costly to produce as a 405
Producing more boats is not easy . getting bigger premises and funding it is the easy part , getting the right people and training them to our very high standard is something else. It takes one year to train a person properly so he or she can work without having a supervisor watch constantly.
We are hiring at a rate of 1 person per week to get our staff up to 150 people when the new factory opens.
We do almost eveything in house , electrical, work plumbing, spray painting , carpentry,stainless steel work , epoxy resin infusion all parts etc. so we have a total of 8 different departments, we train in house since we built different from anybody else in the industry here , we aim for extreme lightweight and the highest possible quality and it just takes time.
We even manufacture a lightweight Rigid inflatable in house because nobody else can produce a RIB weighting 20 kilo,s for 11 ft.

[CMNZ]

[QUOTE=Dreaming Yachtsman;109788]This thread seems like an ideal place to ask some questions relating to rudder post failures that have been nagging me for nearly a year. The precipitating event for these questions was another Fountaine Pajot catamaran losing one of its rudders during the 2006 Baja Ha-Ha and a casual mention by someone else of a catamaran having lost both its rudders (possibly the same incident Schoonerdog referred to in his post starting this thread).

I also have a rudder post question relating to galvanic corrosion. I am building a 38' cat and am just now finishing the rudders. The rudder posts are 60mm 316 SS pipe which will be exposed in the 10mm between the glassed part of the rudder and the tube which is also glass. The steering will be hydraulic and I think I will be able to completely isolate the rudder posts, tillers and rams from the rest of the boat electrically (provided of course that the hydraulic oil is not conductive).

My question is, therefore, is that enough to prevent galvanic corrosion to the posts? I have read Nigel Calder and this seems to be the main criteria but is there anything ales I need to do Alternatively would it be better to connect the post electrically and run a wire to a zinc anode?

[Training Wheels]

Congrats for resurrecting a 15 year old thread, impressive!

[catsketcher]

Should I have done something on mine? My rudders are composite over 50mm stainless. They go into a composite tube and about 10mm is showing. They have lasted for 22 years so far no worries. I don't know how to check for corrosion under the laminate but I think I will be okay.

I check the laminate where the shaft enters the rudder and there is no cracking or weeping. I always use epoxy and did the normal treatment of sanding the stainless before epoxying it with clear resin as I made the laminate. When so no easy way for water to get into the shaft, which reduce the ability for oxidation to occur.

I would recommend you take extra care with your glass work where the shaft enters the rudder - stop the water getting in and corrosion will be much much slower.

cheers

Phil

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by maxingout

It's interesting to hear about rudder loss on catamarans. I personally know a sailor on a 48 foot South African Cat who lost one rudder without knowing that it was gone until he went snorkeling. The boat handled normally with a single rudder.

Is this a voyage catamaran?


I have only a single rudder on my trimaran but I also have a sculling oar which can steer the boat in emergencies.

I think if both rudders disappear simultaneously, there's manufacturing or maintenance issues. Losing one rudder I can understand. But two rudders disappearing into the depths should never happen in a well maintained yacht.

I am not sure it ever did happen... at least not in the same moment in time.

If I lost both rudders, I would set up sheet to tiller steering while sailing, and I would use

sheet to tiller requires a rudder.

reportedly people have used their drogues to steer although this would slow you down.

Also attach some plywood to a spinnaker pole to make something you can steer with.

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by catsketcher

Should I have done something on mine? My rudders are composite over 50mm stainless. They go into a composite tube and about 10mm is showing. They have lasted for 22 years so far no worries. I don't know how to check for corrosion under the laminate but I think I will be okay.

I built mine using carbon fiber, foam and titanium is the only metal used, but even it is isolated from the carbon using delrin. It cost me about $400 in material to build my rudder (carbon and epoxy) the titanium I can get cheaper than stainless, I used it for chainplates too.

I have had stainless wind vane steering rudder break off from my last boat. stainless that is always underwater can be an issue.

[catsketcher]

The designer of my boat also drew a really nice fast cat called Big Wave rider. To make the shafts the owner made square cedar shafts and then laminated these with many layers of carbon uni.

Then they made two areas where they built up the square section to a round shape. Then they put the shafts with the rounded sections on a lathe and slowly turned them down.

Custom composite shafts at a very good price. Another great thing was that no stainless was underwater. If a break a rudder then this is how I will build the replacement.

Stainless is a bummer underwater. The Yound Barnacles channel has a fair bit about a good builder repairing his rudders. Then on the Transatlantic trip, one broke off.

Shayne goes through the rebuild of the rudders in this episode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhHi6bQtzzA

And one broke off in this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmbsd8tJ2gg&t=365s

I like Shane's work, he is not a dummy, so losing a rudder after a rebuild is very interesting.

[gramos]

Re: Reply to thread 'emergency steering on a catamaran'
graham foster





































After one crew member ramming the rocks leaving Chanteryne harbour I thanked heaven I had made solid 42mm rudder posts ! One of them bent ( we hit the rocks at 7.8 knots ), jamming the rudder blade onto the hull , so 0 steering . We were towed back into the slipway where two French fishing boats left pdq for us and when the tide fell I then loosened the bolts on the clamp in board and dropped the rudder down 15 mm to clear the blade away from the hull . Thharbour master 2ad an absolute hero , he went to the nearest yard and scrounged some resin and cloth which I slapped on the hole in the keel and we sailed back across the channel on the evening tide 😃.Point is here , use solid bar not tube , no crevice corrosion and ten times stronger for a little extra weight . Gramos

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Tnflakbait

A good solution as well is to use a door (if you have) one and attach it to your spi pole.

Do you have any direct or anecdotal experience with this? I believe I have read some commentary in the past that it does not work as well as it sounds on paper.

I have an extremely long and thin spade rudder set significantly behind my fin keel, and so I spend more sleepless nights thinking about that than I'd like.

My working theory is that I will take my Jordan drogue (came with the boat, I've opened and inspected it, but never placed it in the water), separate off the tail section, and use that with two jib sheets for steering. While the implications of a lost rudder are extremely severe, I see the likelihood as low. So in my view a poor but functional system is an acceptable solution. If it takes me 2 weeks to get within tow boat range, that's fine.

I have seen the video demonstration (or well illustrated paper?) of a drogue on a large green Swan (as I recall) named something like Charmed, and been impressed with that solution.