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Old 14-02-2012, 13:01   #121
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Re: Electrical Propulsion vs Diesel Propulsion

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Originally Posted by Alberto View Post
Yes, I did. I have commented on the Lagoon case in another thread in this forum: a great idea launched to the market before it was fully developed, tarnishing a promising technology.
Agree with Alberto. IMO some tried to make the EP system too complex and therefore costly. It's really best to keep it a very simple system. When they start adding automatic charging systems plus a whole lot of propritery software programing then maybe rush it out on the water for a boat show nothing good will happen. To me EP in a multihull should make a lot of sense even with an inboard diesel generator installed. Only one engine to maintain instead of two, less parts to carry and easier access for service. But, all I know is it works well in my monohull. Keeping it simple to me is the key.
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Old 14-02-2012, 13:05   #122
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Re: Electrical Propulsion vs Diesel Propulsion

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perhaps I am mistaken. Sure, why should those people with more than one hull remain ignorant of the tremendous values in knowing the advantages and disadvantages of varied propulsion systems? I mean, how could anyone deprive our fellow sailors, regardless of their choice of vessel?
Thanks eh? I have a feeling that there's an implied "humor" tag in there that I'm missing.

In any event, as I mentioned earlier, my brother exchanged his small gas outboard for an electric outboard on his daysailer and with the exception of one battery/electronics failure it has been a marked improvement. I'm not at all anti-electric. Indeed, on this matter, as in all things, I have a perfectly rational, balanced and correct opinion . But, in the context of cruising, range and re-fueling for pure electric systems become real concerns. Hybrid systems are one way to deal with the those challenges but they have both theoretical hurdles and a very mixed real world record so far. The multihull/monohull issues don't seem to be first order to me. However, for better or worse mutlihulls have been on the cutting edge of this technology as implemented for cruising sailboats (aux sail). So your concern for our ignorance as a class is, I'm sure, appreciated, but perhaps a bit misplaced.

Tom.
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Old 14-02-2012, 13:33   #123
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Re: Electrical Propulsion vs Diesel Propulsion

Perhaps the electric motor serves the incidental sailor or lake fisherman who's reasonbly restricted or limited in his voyages. Or who lives in the ultimate luxury to leave his dock and forwards to the plain and open water without the limitations of a overpopulated BNLX seconded by some the heaviest shipping traffic imaginable.
If I go to Germany, Denmark, The UK or thereabouts I have to have a sufficient propulsion system since I have to cross inland waters, locks, bridges and the whole rataplan. Just not serious.
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Old 14-02-2012, 13:39   #124
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Re: Electrical Propulsion vs Diesel Propulsion

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Originally Posted by Notpopeye View Post
Isn't this is purely a monohull discussion? At least all us monohull owners thought so.
It's in the multihull sailboats forum.
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Old 14-02-2012, 14:57   #125
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Re: Electrical Propulsion vs Diesel Propulsion

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Originally Posted by tsmwebb View Post
Thanks eh? I have a feeling that there's an implied "humor" tag in there that I'm missing.

In any event, as I mentioned earlier, my brother exchanged his small gas outboard for an electric outboard on his daysailer and with the exception of one battery/electronics failure it has been a marked improvement. I'm not at all anti-electric. Indeed, on this matter, as in all things, I have a perfectly rational, balanced and correct opinion . But, in the context of cruising, range and re-fueling for pure electric systems become real concerns. Hybrid systems are one way to deal with the those challenges but they have both theoretical hurdles and a very mixed real world record so far. The multihull/monohull issues don't seem to be first order to me. However, for better or worse mutlihulls have been on the cutting edge of this technology as implemented for cruising sailboats (aux sail). So your concern for our ignorance as a class is, I'm sure, appreciated, but perhaps a bit misplaced.

Tom.
Tom

I think popeye is a bit one eyed.

Seems to me that it is a valid discussion for all vessels and that there have been Cats in many ways leading the trend even if it has not been properly sorted as yet. Apart from Lagoon, there is Africa fastcats, The Tang vessel and SMG 50 with Mastervolt hybrid drive and others.
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Old 14-02-2012, 15:07   #126
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Re: Electrical Propulsion vs Diesel Propulsion

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Tom

I think popeye is a bit one eyed.

Seems to me that it is a valid discussion for all vessels and that there have been Cats in many ways leading the trend even if it has not been properly sorted as yet. Apart from Lagoon, there is Africa fastcats, The Tang vessel and SMG 50 with Mastervolt hybrid drive and others.
Not to mention the SMG 50 also has a A-Frame mast, so two modern innovations that our great grand children will say "wasn't it always this way?"
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Old 14-02-2012, 15:13   #127
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Re: Electrical Propulsion vs Diesel Propulsion

Deckofficer, I'd say the cheapest/lightest/most reliable option for the boat you're looking at is going to be a pair of Yam 9.9's.

Diesel/electrics have advantages, but cost, weight and in the cases I've seen, reliability, haven't been among them.
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Old 14-02-2012, 15:15   #128
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Re: Electrical Propulsion vs Diesel Propulsion

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Not to mention the SMG 50 also has a A-Frame mast, so two modern innovations that our great grand children will say "wasn't it always this way?"
I think the Aframe mast has a lot to offer. Biggest problem is it is still considered radical by the market.


http://www.sail-the-difference.com/h...an/smg_50plus/

cheers
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Old 14-02-2012, 15:41   #129
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Re: Electrical Propulsion vs Diesel Propulsion

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I think the Aframe mast has a lot to offer. Biggest problem is it is still considered radical by the market.


SMG 50plus - innovative catamaran with A-frame-rig

cheers
I know, I know, and that alone is probably why it has taken a generation for cats to get a solid foot hold in the market. Most naval architects would be happy to show off their pedigree in innovations, but this is one conservative market, and lets face it, these guys have to design what will sale, not sail.
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Old 14-02-2012, 18:38   #130
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Re: Electrical Propulsion vs Diesel Propulsion

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I know, I know, and that alone is probably why it has taken a generation for cats to get a solid foot hold in the market. Most naval architects would be happy to show off their pedigree in innovations, but this is one conservative market, and lets face it, these guys have to design what will sale, not sail.

+1
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Old 14-02-2012, 19:16   #131
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Re: Electrical Propulsion vs Diesel Propulsion

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Not to mention the SMG 50 also has a A-Frame mast, so two modern innovations that our great grand children will say "wasn't it always this way?"
The A frame idea might have happened sooner if the original masts (trees) had grown as A frames instead of cylindrical forms.
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Old 14-02-2012, 19:18   #132
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Re: Electrical Propulsion vs Diesel Propulsion

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Deckofficer, I'd say the cheapest/lightest/most reliable option for the boat you're looking at is going to be a pair of Yam 9.9's.

Diesel/electrics have advantages, but cost, weight and in the cases I've seen, reliability, haven't been among them.
Your right on most counts.

Larger investment ~ yes
Lack of proven reliability ~ yes, on the outboards only
More weight ~ no, my component selection, it is a wash, plus have flexibility of weight placement.

If I didn't mention it on this thread, this is what drives me in this direction.

1) I'm very comfortable with electrics, have designed, built, and raced EVs
2) I'm disgusted with the oil industry
3) I want a fully electric galley all the way to the 1500 watt BBQ on the railing.
4) Even the dinghy will be electric
5) As a singlehander, I want the low rpm torque of an electric motor swinging a large diameter/pitch prop for precise and controlled maneuvering.
6) Ego, should have been #1. I have always liked to show off, things like systems or home rolled electronics. Comes from my time in the Sea of Cortez when I was running HAM SSB into my designed HF marine antenna and a home brew 600 watt amp. It doesn't take too many signal reports coming from the "away" station to the anchorage that piques the interest of other cruisers, then I'm in my element, explaining to new cruiser friends what I did.
7) No propane or gasoline. Diesel is fine because it could also run on renewables.

i know, EGO EGO EGO, its a bad thing, but I'm guilty.
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Old 14-02-2012, 19:40   #133
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There are some great points in this thread in regards to conversion. Thank you for the input regarding the thru hulls and removal of the fuel tanks. I need to remember an electric propulsion system is based on various components and I am beginning to think it would be overkill to immediately eliminate the thru hulls and fuel tanks. I'm going to build my own system based on a 72 volt mars motor. Alberto, can you describe how you are charging your batteries in this system. I was looking for 72 volt charge controllers and thinking I would need to run solar and or wind in series to achieve 72 volt charging, but you stated you are charging each battery independently, is that correct?
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Old 14-02-2012, 19:51   #134
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Re: Electrical Propulsion vs Diesel Propulsion

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these guys were posting a lot here, and actually sailed the cat from south africa to europe if I remember correctly. It's not pure electric, but rather a hybrid that allows you to "motor sail" for thousands of miles without running the generator.


Green-Motion retractable propulsion/generating system patented - African Cats

If you dig into them you will find that they did not perform as advertised. Not by a long shot. Lots of talk, no action.
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Old 14-02-2012, 19:53   #135
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Re: Electrical Propulsion vs Diesel Propulsion

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Wait, did you not read my last post? Almost all of the hybrid Lagoon 420's have been converted to conventional diesel by the owners. I am asking for someone to find me a hybrid Lagoon 420 owner who is happy with the hybrid.
There is one on this forum. Can't remember name.

Search back for thread/s on L420

Lagoon 420 Owners & Fans
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