Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-04-2014, 13:15   #91
Registered User
 
zerompg's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Boat: Fountain Pajot Orana 44
Posts: 58
Re: Electric Propulsion on Catamarans

So how much of my Nissan Leaf can I cannibalize? It wont be worth reselling in 4-5 years but it does have a nice 24KWH 660lb battery, an elec motor, charging system for 240V and 480V, BMS, no real issue with any thermal system i.e. not like a Volt.

The 24 kWh battery pack consists of 48 modules and each module contains four cells, a total of 192 cells

I figure this will be a great way to "try" it out when the time comes.

It should be holding about 80% of its capacity in 10 years, and so far mine has held very well.

I can say from an automobile perspective, there has been 0 maintenance in 2.5 years.

Love the discussion as we see sales records falling left and right in cars the natural path is a big cat!
__________________

__________________
zerompg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2014, 13:27   #92
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 474
Re: Electric Propulsion on Catamarans

You mean this battery...

It is the same type that is in the Leaf, although configured a little differently.
48 modules broken up into three 130V DC packs @ 60 Ah. They weigh 145 lbs each.

They should fit nicely into a Pelican 1690 case... Well, I will find out soon enough. The measurements say it should.
__________________

__________________
SunDevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2014, 20:48   #93
Registered User
 
gypsy wanderer's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2014
Boat: corsair tri and custom cat
Posts: 34
Re: Electric Propulsion on Catamarans

Don't have any affiliation with these guys but when I did a search here it did not come up.
I posted about these guys on my Yahoo electric boat forum a while back,
actually quite a while back. I am new here but think this boat fits here.
I would love there to be a used market of these so I could afford one.
99 grand in base model. Honestly it seems to almost simple in it's approach to an electric cat. It is not a sail boat. No bridge deck living area. Still it is kinda cool. What say you guys.



Blue Planet Catamarans presents the Blue Planet 32E - The World's First 32 foot Electric Boat - Setting the Environmental Standard - Powered by Torqeedo electric outboard motors
__________________
gypsy wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2014, 13:56   #94
Registered User
 
nimblemotors's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sacramento, California
Boat: Solar 40ft Cat :)
Posts: 1,557
Re: Electric Propulsion on Catamarans

I would say anyone manufacturing a boat using two Torqueedo motors on a 32ft boat has no engineering skills whatsoever.
$100,000 for a powerboat that goes 8 mph?


Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsy wanderer View Post
Don't have any affiliation with these guys but when I did a search here it did not come up.
I posted about these guys on my Yahoo electric boat forum a while back,
actually quite a while back. I am new here but think this boat fits here.
I would love there to be a used market of these so I could afford one.
99 grand in base model. Honestly it seems to almost simple in it's approach to an electric cat. It is not a sail boat. No bridge deck living area. Still it is kinda cool. What say you guys.



Blue Planet Catamarans presents the Blue Planet 32E - The World's First 32 foot Electric Boat - Setting the Environmental Standard - Powered by Torqeedo electric outboard motors
__________________
JackB
MiniMPPT Solar Controller
nimblemotors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2014, 21:34   #95
Registered User
 
gypsy wanderer's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2014
Boat: corsair tri and custom cat
Posts: 34
Re: Electric Propulsion on Catamarans

Quote:
Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
I would say anyone manufacturing a boat using two Torqueedo motors on a 32ft boat has no engineering skills whatsoever.
$100,000 for a powerboat that goes 8 mph?
Well, The price tag is high to me but can you explain to me why using
two Torqueedo motors is sub par engineering?
Compared to what? Is there another example of an electric boat that goes further than 80 miles at 8mph hour on the same sized battery pack,
and can sleep 6 that you can show me?
Not saying there isn't one , just like to see it.
Just electric, not with sail or generator running.
__________________
gypsy wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2014, 22:02   #96
Registered User
 
deckofficer's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northern and Southern California
Boat: too many
Posts: 4,198
Images: 4
Re: Electric Propulsion on Catamarans

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsy wanderer View Post
Well, The price tag is high to me but can you explain to me why using
two Torqueedo motors is sub par engineering?
Compared to what? Is there another example of an electric boat that goes further than 80 miles at 8mph hour on the same sized battery pack,
and can sleep 6 that you can show me?
Not saying there isn't one , just like to see it.
Just electric, not with sail or generator running.
I've gone through their site and what catches my attention was the same that caught yours, the 80 mile range. Assuming this range is based on the largest optional battery pack, and probably at a rather sedate speed of maybe 4 kt, that does work out to 125 whr per mile, and that IS impressive.

I couldn't help but notice how fine the bows are, combined with vacuum resin injection for the hulls and deck, probably a pretty light package that makes 125 whr per mile possible. With (16) of the Winston 700 ah LiFePO4 cells instead of the expensive Torqeedo LiPO batteries, 230+ mile range at 80% DOD. Now that is worth being spartan on interior trim and weights.
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
http://tbuckets.lefora.com/
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2014, 22:37   #97
Registered User
 
gypsy wanderer's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2014
Boat: corsair tri and custom cat
Posts: 34
Re: Electric Propulsion on Catamarans

They put that 8mph stat right next to the 80 mile range giving the impression that is what it is capable of and the two numbers go together.
It would be nice to see a graph or something. Whether it really does this well or somewhat less, it still seems good.
I personally would like to see a much bigger bridge deck roof.
If I was to even entertain getting one I would get it bare bones , no interior work and I would rework that whole upper deck/roof and max it out with solar panels. That's just my take on it.
One other thing I like is it is demountable. It would be possible (perhaps) to make a trailer and tow it.
And honestly what is wrong with using Torqueedo's engineering.
Granted it is a simple approach but who cares as long as it does what they say.
__________________
gypsy wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2014, 14:14   #98
Registered User
 
tomfl's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 1,959
Images: 10
Re: Electric Propulsion on Catamarans

Not so sure I like the seemingly high windage of this Blue Planet thing and have to wonder about the outboard like motors in a big following sea.

I consider myself a gentleman cruiser with a Seawind 1000 who tries to never go to windward. But I would be concerned about taking a boat like the Blue Planet in even a daylight only blue water cruise from South Florida to the Bahamas.

I really like the idea of an electric powered boat. But power is the key word, and 80 mi range at 4 knots simply does not leave enough of a safety margin for an old weak scared sailor like me.

Anyone know of a serious bluewater cruiser with electric power.
__________________
tomfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2014, 14:21   #99
Registered User
 
deckofficer's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northern and Southern California
Boat: too many
Posts: 4,198
Images: 4
Re: Electric Propulsion on Catamarans

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
Not so sure I like the seemingly high windage of this Blue Planet thing and have to wonder about the outboard like motors in a big following sea.

I consider myself a gentleman cruiser with a Seawind 1000 who tries to never go to windward. But I would be concerned about taking a boat like the Blue Planet in even a daylight only blue water cruise from South Florida to the Bahamas.

I really like the idea of an electric powered boat. But power is the key word, and 80 mi range at 4 knots simply does not leave enough of a safety margin for an old weak scared sailor like me.

Anyone know of a serious bluewater cruiser with electric power.
Tom, see my post #17 on this thread.
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
http://tbuckets.lefora.com/
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2014, 14:28   #100
Registered User
 
tomfl's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 1,959
Images: 10
Re: Electric Propulsion on Catamarans

Quote:
Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
Tom, see my post #17 on this thread.
Guess I should have asked about one I could afford and single hand.

I do like the idea, but have not seen anything I would trade my Seawind for.
__________________
tomfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2014, 15:30   #101
Registered User
 
deckofficer's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northern and Southern California
Boat: too many
Posts: 4,198
Images: 4
Re: Electric Propulsion on Catamarans

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
Guess I should have asked about one I could afford and single hand.

I do like the idea, but have not seen anything I would trade my Seawind for.
Your Seawind is a great sailboat, would be hard to give up. The drawback of sailboats is the wind is either the wrong direction, too strong, too weak, etc.

The drawback of a powerboat is dependence on fuel, availability and ever increasing price.

A solar powered boat has intrigued me since my Academy days. A good candidate for solar power has to be both very lightweight and minimum wetted surface.

I've been looking at the used market of the Bond built (from Poland) 30' Motorcat. This boat is trailerable with it's 9' 7" beam, 6500 lbs, offshore little cruiser that can zip around at 25+ kt on a pair of 60 hp outboards. The builder is aware of how easily driven his hull design is and is currently experimenting with electric propulsion. To date they have only tried a single Minn-kota trolling motor but did see 5.5 kt of speed. They speculate a pair of Torqeedo 4.0 will give them 8.5 kt which is close to the top speed of 10.5 kt for the standard pitch prop.

A used 30' Motorcat (2002 model) goes for about $40K with trailer and outboards. Sell the outboards, now at $35K. 2200 watts of panels at $3300 plus (16) 700 ahr LiFePO4 cells at $12000, (2) Torqeedo 4.0 at $7000, plus a 48 VDC 4800 watt inverter/charger at $2200.

So for a total outlay of less than $60K, you would have a range of 120 miles on battery power, 5 days on the hook would replenish the batteries for another 120 miles or a single day stay at a marina with 30 amp service.

So Tom, what do you think?
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
http://tbuckets.lefora.com/
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2014, 16:00   #102
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,458
Images: 69
Re: Electric Propulsion on Catamarans

Quote:
Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
So for a total outlay of less than $60K, you would have a range of 120 miles on battery power, 5 days on the hook would replenish the batteries for another 120 miles or a single day stay at a marina with 30 amp service.

So Tom, what do you think?
Does that also include running refrigeration, watermaker, lights, pumps, toilets etc? Do you cook with electricity too?

And while the wind isn't always in the right direction, the sun doesn't always shine either....
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2014, 16:22   #103
Registered User
 
deckofficer's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northern and Southern California
Boat: too many
Posts: 4,198
Images: 4
Re: Electric Propulsion on Catamarans

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Does that also include running refrigeration, watermaker, lights, pumps, toilets etc? Do you cook with electricity too?

And while the wind isn't always in the right direction, the sun doesn't always shine either....
Electric galley, Engle freezer, electric dinghy, yes all electric no propane or other fuels. With that amount of solar, even a cloudy day will produce watts. The main thing is enough battery storage for 120 mile runs. If your frugal on the hook, then 3 sunny days and your ready for your next leg. If overcast and a lot of domestic usage, maybe a week to top off. Great for coastal, Caribbean, and the Great Loop, not to mention other rivers and lakes. You won't be crossing oceans with only harvesting 2000 watts per hour of solar for propulsion, but you can cover 30~40 miles per day in sunny weather.
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
http://tbuckets.lefora.com/
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2014, 18:26   #104
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 681
Re: Electric Propulsion on Catamarans

I am seeking feedback on any aspects of planning an electric 46 foot bluewater cruising cat that others have had a think about. I am at the stage of feasibility analysis, looking for the main factors in a cost-benefit review.

The rationale for this exercise, besides all the normal reasons for electric, is that for us this is a ten year (minimum) cruising plan, and I am concerned about the availability & cost of diesel in the South Pacific island nations over the next decade. Several of these nations are already replacing their reliance on diesel generators for electricity with large banks of LiFePO4 fed by solar, and diesel shortages are already being experienced in some places. I am told this trend will only continue, and in fact accelerate. So costs have to be looked at over that decade long period. I am assuming that electric will have a higher initial capital cost, but lower on-going maintenance costs and of course fuel costs. And I am assuming we will have to motor more than expected, especially if we head towards the equator in cyclone season where winds are light. So we need to plan for extended motoring.

The integrated system I am looking at for the FreeFlow 46 cat ( FreeFlow Catamarans ) is the Torqeedo 30kW (40 HP) Deep Blue shaft drives in each hull, or perhaps one 30kW motor and one 10kW (with dedicated motor batteries) to save on battery costs? Will need lots of solar so will have Targa arch to hold high density panels, and a 6 Kw diesel gennie that will power the motor(s) for extended motoring and put charge in batteries at the same time. I see regeneration as a key requirement of the energy balance equation to recharge batteries while under sail.

So any feedback is welcome, particularly from those with experience or who have put a bit of thought into this. Has anyone done a total cost of ownership exercise, electric vs diesel, that we can discuss?

Are there any show stoppers that I should be aware of?
__________________
BigBeakie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2014, 18:52   #105
Registered User
 
deckofficer's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northern and Southern California
Boat: too many
Posts: 4,198
Images: 4
Re: Electric Propulsion on Catamarans

BB,

I think we have talked on another thread.
__________________

__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
http://tbuckets.lefora.com/
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
catamaran, electric, propulsion

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electrical Propulsion vs Diesel Propulsion niel12 Multihull Sailboats 232 14-11-2014 17:51
electric propulsion system peter.bomberg Multihull Sailboats 19 12-12-2008 19:26
Electric propulsion conversions Southbound Engines and Propulsion Systems 5 12-12-2008 07:30
Range using electric propulsion Hankthelank Monohull Sailboats 33 03-08-2008 03:57



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:29.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.