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Old 29-10-2013, 21:00   #46
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Re: Electric propulsion on catamarans

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How much did that set you back?
$2,500. These days I think you can buy one for $1,800.
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Old 30-10-2013, 05:05   #47
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Re: Electric propulsion on catamarans

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$2,500. These days I think you can buy one for $1,800.
That is less than I had expected. Do you happen to know the ah & vdc ratings?
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Old 30-10-2013, 07:21   #48
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Re: Electric propulsion on catamarans

I looked up the Winston 1000 a-hr LiFePO4 cells online and don't find a retailer. Their on Ebay...look like something you piece together yourself I'll run them by the Hybrid system designer and get his input as well, but I'd like to know how long they've been in use and how wide spread. I know I'm being cautious here, but reliability is as important to me as efficiency (if not more so).

On another note, I'm hoping Cotemar gets a touch over 5 knots with the Torqeedo 1003...waiting to see
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Old 30-10-2013, 09:13   #49
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Re: Electric propulsion on catamarans

Try the discounted 700 a-hr cells. Can't beat the price and at 36.4 kw-hr, a whole lot more capacity than the PC 1800's.

PC 1800 at 50% DOD 5 kw-hr usable vs 29 kw-hr usable for the 700 a-hr cells.

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Old 30-10-2013, 21:49   #50
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Re: Electric propulsion on catamarans

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That is less than I had expected. Do you happen to know the ah & vdc ratings?
Prius GenI packs are 280 volts and 6.5Ah cells. The GenII have fewer cells, 200 volts. They are NiMH cells, and are really not useful for anything but a Prius.
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Old 30-10-2013, 22:28   #51
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Re: Electric propulsion on catamarans

Since 2001 NiMH cells larger than 10 a-hr (D cell) are not offered because Chevron Oil purchased the patent from Ovonics. At the time the GM EV-1 range increased when the LA were swapped out with NiMH and Chevron stepped in to kill it off.
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Old 31-10-2013, 18:22   #52
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Re: Electric propulsion on catamarans

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Prius GenI packs are 280 volts and 6.5Ah cells. The GenII have fewer cells, 200 volts. They are NiMH cells, and are really not useful for anything but a Prius.
That is actually very interesting to me. With that kind of voltage, I could directly power the DC buss of many off-the-shelf industrial VFDs. How much do you think that battery weighs?
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Old 31-10-2013, 18:46   #53
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Re: Electric propulsion on catamarans

My guess, 40~50 lbs.

My guess is off a bit on the 6.5 a-hr 274 volt battery, it has 228 cells with each cell 1050 grams, so 239.4 kg or 527 lbs. My guess was based on lithium not NiMH.
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:13   #54
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Re: Electric propulsion on catamarans

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Try the discounted 700 a-hr cells. Can't beat the price and at 36.4 kw-hr, a whole lot more capacity than the PC 1800's.

PC 1800 at 50% DOD 5 kw-hr usable vs 29 kw-hr usable for the 700 a-hr cells.

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So I ran this by the designer of the hybrid system for our boat. He's open to using what ever batteries I want and will configure it to match them. But he still recommends the PC1800's and cautions that there isn't a large scale history available for the more powerful cells. If I was going to use them in an electric car or dinghy it would be an easy choice. But this catamaran will be our home and there will be times when we will be hundreds of miles off shore. Efficiency vs safety are the deciding factors. No matter what type of batteries are installed I'll most likely install a temp sensor with alarm in the battery storage area.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:52   #55
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Re: Electric propulsion on catamarans

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So I ran this by the designer of the hybrid system for our boat. He's open to using what ever batteries I want and will configure it to match them. But he still recommends the PC1800's and cautions that there isn't a large scale history available for the more powerful cells. If I was going to use them in an electric car or dinghy it would be an easy choice. But this catamaran will be our home and there will be times when we will be hundreds of miles off shore. Efficiency vs safety are the deciding factors. No matter what type of batteries are installed I'll most likely install a temp sensor with alarm in the battery storage area.
That is a decision you will have to make. It sounds like your designer is an A~Z guy, and doesn't specialize in energy storage systems. This is a catamaran where weight plays an important roll in the design. It looks like you will need to do all the research for both the batteries and a sub contractor with experience in LiFePO4 cells. Here is a link on a simple swap of LA to lithium, also on a cat. Lithium Batteries

I'm sure you aware of the 3000+ post thread here on CF LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

The major advantages of LiFePO4

Safe
lightweight
long cycle life
no voltage sag under heavy load
almost constant voltage during discharge
twice the usable a-hr for same rating
greater charge acceptance
cheaper for the long haul
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:14   #56
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Re: Electric propulsion on catamarans

Bryguy67,

Look up the posts by Maine Sail. He designs and installs energy systems on boats and has been running many tests on LiFePO4 cells before he starts to recommend them. The only negative so far has been he burned out (4) $6.00 glow plugs in his diesel. Appears these plugs are designed for the voltage sag of LA batteries, and since LiFePO4 cells are so robust they don't sag under heavy loads, he recommends reducing glow plug times from 15 seconds to 8 seconds. Otherwise he feels they are an amazing improvement over all other battery chemistry.
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Old 01-11-2013, 18:37   #57
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Re: Electric propulsion on catamarans

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That is actually very interesting to me. With that kind of voltage, I could directly power the DC buss of many off-the-shelf industrial VFDs. How much do you think that battery weighs?
Alot. Too heavy for me to pickup myself, but two can move it.
Might be 200lbs. NiMH is about 2-3x heavier than lithium.
An issue with NiMH is a pretty high self-discharge.
Forget about using them, use lithium.
You can get small lithium cells if you want many of them to make high voltage.
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Old 05-11-2013, 02:18   #58
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Re: Electric propulsion on catamarans

HI, I have been talking to Isara Yachts about their hybrid and i'm convinced this is the way to go, very simple and a belt and braces approach, sees the simple ones often work out to be the best. I don't think it is their invention so to speak, but they sent me a good rundown. Chris at Isara was the guy i spoke to in Annapolis FYI.
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Old 05-11-2013, 05:24   #59
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Re: Electric propulsion on catamarans

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HI, I have been talking to Isara Yachts about their hybrid and i'm convinced this is the way to go, very simple and a belt and braces approach, sees the simple ones often work out to be the best. I don't think it is their invention so to speak, but they sent me a good rundown. Chris at Isara was the guy i spoke to in Annapolis FYI.
Is this the system they are using on the Isara?
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Old 05-11-2013, 06:08   #60
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Re: Electric propulsion on catamarans

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Is this the system they are using on the Isara?
I'm not entirely sure, it does look similar. One of the other posts here did mention it a while ago but i can't find it now, try emailing them at info@isarayachts.com maybe they can verify that. There isn't a lot of info on the website re hybrid though. Sorry i can't be of more help. I am going to try and see one and also find out if its being used elsewhere - the lagoon one sounded good and....!
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