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Old 02-08-2009, 02:54   #451
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Hallo George
The FastCat has a 22 KW generator that consumes 8 liters per hour if running at full speed
Okay, so a change in size needed to be made. Nice to figure that out before beta testing starts.

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the proof of the pudding is in the eating and once launched we will keep accurate track of the consumption, speeds, motor rpm settings etc
I think the most reliable pudding would come from whoever might serve themselves up as guinea pigs 1,2 or 3 of this system.

Glad to see that you are still willing to respond. Hopefully not just to the easy questions.
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Old 02-08-2009, 03:06   #452
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I own the first Green Motion boat and will test extensively together with owners of the next 4 green motion equipped Fastcats, the reason for the 22 kw is that the weight of this newly developed generator was lower and efficiency higher than previously choosen generators.
2 good reasons for me.
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Old 02-08-2009, 03:38   #453
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I own the first Green Motion boat and will test extensively together with owners of the next 4 green motion equipped Fastcats, the reason for the 22 kw is that the weight of this newly developed generator was lower and efficiency higher than previously choosen generators.
2 good reasons for me.
Lower weight and better efficiency are great reasons! Just thinking out loud here; Whover the genset manufacture is hasn't, or can't , carry over these same efficiencies to a 16 KW generator?

As far as testing extensively, at least you are now not eluding to the fact that they are on the market and in production. While the testing results of whatever boat you will own might be helpful to you, it's the independent third-party results that will be interesting.

I refuse to think this whole Green Motion thing is a bad idea. It's not. But as you say - The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Just as long as it's not force fed without legitimate questions being evaded.
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Old 02-08-2009, 07:22   #454
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If it does not work as I have in mind I will be the first to admit it, however the reasons for it to work and work well are all there, a boat with a low weight and resistance, large props for high efficiency, efficient well cooled electric motors / generators low revving, high efficient and digital efficient controllers, no resistance from these large props when sailing unless you want to regenerate power. I am sure the almost the same efficiencies can be carried over to a 16 KW generator, however I have opted to cook electric as well so this generator does not only put out 150 dc but also 24 volts dc for the house batteries
the 24 volt alternator is 3 Kw and it can be switched of or on when needed.
We have 2 x 9.6 KW net power so I must assume that these will cost 10 kw each in consumption or a total of 20 when going full power that leaves 2 for 24 volt alternator
It is very well possible that the generator is to big or to small depending on what is done with the boat, ocean crossings and going thru the doldrums will use substantially more power than normal cruising and in and out of harbours, ( a shore charger is also build in both for the 24 and the 150 DC system )

gideon
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Old 08-08-2009, 19:47   #455
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I own the first Green Motion boat and will test extensively together with owners of the next 4 green motion equipped Fastcats, the reason for the 22 kw is that the weight of this newly developed generator was lower and efficiency higher than previously choosen generators.
2 good reasons for me.
Gee Gideon if the last boat you built (Butterfly and Barnacle) as a hobby is any indication... the next 4 green motion equipped Fastcat Owners could be in for a rough ride...
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Old 11-08-2009, 15:42   #456
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It is a long thread and it could be mentioned somewhere already, but what happens when a lightning strikes a boat with so much of this-and-that of electric figures?
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Old 11-08-2009, 16:05   #457
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It is a long thread and it could be mentioned somewhere already, but what happens when a lightning strikes a boat with so much of this-and-that of electric figures?
VERY expensive! I was just invloved with an insurance claim on a hybrid cat that got hit, the damages totaled over $150K and took a long time to get all of the replacement equipment, which included all of the propulsion system, and much of the electronics and electrical equipment.
Brian
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Old 11-08-2009, 16:07   #458
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You go back to sailing
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Old 11-08-2009, 16:52   #459
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There was an article on the Chevy Volt in this month's Car & Driver (I know, not a sailboat, but it is a plug-in hybrid.) They discussed how to give the battery pack a life of 10 years or 150,000 miles, it could never be charged above 80% or be used below 30%. Once it hit the 30% mark, the gasoline engine kicked in and ran the car while charging the batteries.

The aquatic electric drive systems I've seen have still used standard lead-acid batteries, which are heavier and less efficient. I can't believe that you'd get more than 4 or 5 years maximum out of the at least $1,000 of batteries you'd need to have any sort of range.

IMHO the propeller rotation during sailing is never going to fully charge the battery pack. Likewise, by my estimate, it's going to take at least $2k in solar panels to be able to charge that many batteries in a day and probably more like $4k - $5k in panels to be able to run the boat off solar on a sunny day while charging. That's a big investment for panels that are going to be taking up too much deck space and can be easily broken by flying debris or plain clumsiness.

I think a hybrid diesel electric is the only feasible alternative at this point because neither battery life nor solar technologies have progressed far enough yet. Unfortunately, there's no incentive to go that route because it's still cheaper to rebuild an old diesel and keep running that. From what I can tell these hybrids are at least $10k+. If not, please steer me in the direction of a more affordable one.

To go all-electric, it seems to me that a heavy duty electric motors only run about $500 from a supplier like National Oilwell Varco. With that you need an on/off switch, a knob or lever to adjust resistance and polarity (this adjusts the speed and direction of the motor). You'd also need a charge controller to monitor the batteries and cut off charge when they're full. What all those mystery electronics are in those black boxes and why decent all-electric kits seem to start at $7500 without the batteries, I don't know. I guess you're paying for the pre-fabbed brackets, housings, and gears to mate it to your prop shaft, etc. Once you add batteries and solar, you're still in the $10k+ range.

I'm wondering if anyone has been brave enough to just put together their own hybrid with off-the-shelf parts and a portable generator. Seems like it might be doable for around $3k - but maybe I'm just oversimplifying it all in my head.
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Old 11-08-2009, 18:38   #460
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Jetexas,

You are right!

I did mine - motor, battery charger, 200w/48v solar panel, and 2-48v banks of Group32 AGM's for under $7K. Sometimes I cheat by using my Honda 2000i generator.

The motor is a one piece drop in unit from electric yacht www.electricyacht.com . If you click on the link "conversion stories" and the Freedom 32 link you can read my story. I have no stake - just a very happy customer.
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Old 13-08-2009, 06:08   #461
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It is a long thread and it could be mentioned somewhere already, but what happens when a lightning strikes a boat with so much of this-and-that of electric figures?
Whenever this thread pops up I ask the same question. Where do you hide this boat during a lightning storm? These are daily occurrences in my part of the world.

Or is this boat not intended for Tropical latitudes?

One hit, at a minimum, the electronic drive controllers are toast. You're left with a powerless vessel. Until this is addressed, it will remain a great idea that's not ready for prime time.
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Old 13-08-2009, 06:09   #462
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Is that what that big pole sticking out of my deck is for?? Heck I thought it was there to fly my pirate flag.
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Old 09-09-2009, 13:38   #463
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This is the best discussion on hybrids I have read yet: Hybrids Catamaran Concepts
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Old 09-09-2009, 14:12   #464
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Discussion?

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This is the best discussion on hybrids I have read yet: Hybrids Catamaran Concepts
What 'discussion' would that be?

It seemed to me a long-winded diatribe based on one bad experience, a poor understanding of the physics and a complete neglect of a host of advantages of diesel-electric propulsion systems.

Chris
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Old 09-09-2009, 15:25   #465
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there was a mention of hybrid cars earlier in this tread and from my point of view that's where the electric drive technology will derive from for yachting. Looking at the battery packs (litium poly)developed for cars at a fraction of the weight compared to yachtings "old" technology using AGM and gel cell, which are the best - it's a waiting game as far as I'm concerned.

I would recommend to wait for better solutions to arrive, which they will!

I'd love to get rid of the old diesel motors, similar to the batteries the technology gap between the car diesel and the marine diesel is huge.

However the only similarity between a cars braking regeneration and a yacht would be running in front of a storm regenerating instead og deploying drouges

Happy lead free sailin
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