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Old 31-01-2009, 05:27   #406
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In the Green Motion system we use 3 solar panels to charge 3 banks of lithium Ion Phosphate each 48 volts , each of these panels charges one of these 48 volt banks and these are installed in series to get to the required 144 volts.
The BMS ( battery monitoring system ) equalizes the 12 Lithium batterys .
Each of these panels has a Wp of 300 or in a sunny climate we get 5 Kw per day in .
Enough to charge a depleted system of 17 Kw in 3 days .
Presently we use the valence U 24 XP units with a weight of 15.5 kilo each or a total weight for the propulsion side of 186 kilo.
In order to make use of this power bank we use a victron Scylla 100 amp converter that automatically charges the 24 volt ( lithium Ion ) house bank when needed.
A 4th 300 Wp solar panel charges directly into the house bank together with a masthead mounted wind generator.
The way our Green Motion system is designed makes the use of the single 16 Kw diesel generator only neccesary in an emergency or during long periods without any wind.
Regards

Gideon Goudsmit
African Cats Ltd
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:39   #407
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Hey Gideon! What speed (no wind) can you maintain on the generator alone, and how much fuel do you burn?
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Old 03-02-2009, 12:50   #408
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Hallo Sandy a cruising speed of 7.5 knots can be maintained on the 16 KW generator and the fuel burn is 2.5 liters per hour or 5.2 pints
This gives us a powered range of about 1600 NM not counting any solar or wind generated input and not counting any generated electricity from the Motogens.

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Old 22-04-2009, 13:38   #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyAbernethy View Post
I discussed the 72 volt solution with a Lagoon engineer and he was very particular about staying under 80 volts. He referred to several safety guidelines identifying 80 volts as a threshold, thus 72 being a margin of error beneath this. High current is problematic but massive voltage is what causes arcing.
The Lagoon 500 at Emotion Hybrids has a 144 volt system, and when one raises the battery compartment hatch, a switch automatically decouples the batteries to lower the voltage to a safe level.

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Old 25-04-2009, 09:50   #410
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Hallo Sandy we have switched over to the new Lithium Ion batteries from Mastervolt that have more than triple the capacity and the first set will be installed in a month
this will give us 3 to 4 hours of cruise speed of 7 knots before the generator has to start up not counting any solar power input. the weight saving over any other type of battery is fenominal, the total battey weight for the propulsion units is 270 kilo or 580 lbs compared with well over 1100 kilo 2600 lbs for the same capacity in agm or gell units
greetings

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Old 25-04-2009, 10:17   #411
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Gideon,

Did you ever get around to testing the NIMH batteries? I've been curious if you ran into any battery overheating issues? I've been following the new Mastervolt lithiums and they definitely look promising. Can't wait to hear the result of your trials with them. What I really would like to know is just what they've done in the construction process for 'fire containment'. What I liked about the lithium phosphates is that the phosphates would suffocate a fire. I've had the unfortunate experience of a lithium ion fire. There would have to be a robust fire suppression mechanism built into the design for me to entertain using em. Have the folks at Mastervolt provided you with their answer to this concern?
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Old 25-04-2009, 11:09   #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussiesuede View Post
Gideon,

Did you ever get around to testing the NIMH batteries? I've been curious if you ran into any battery overheating issues? I've been following the new Mastervolt lithiums and they definitely look promising. Can't wait to hear the result of your trials with them. What I really would like to know is just what they've done in the construction process for 'fire containment'. What I liked about the lithium phosphates is that the phosphates would suffocate a fire. I've had the unfortunate experience of a lithium ion fire. There would have to be a robust fire suppression mechanism built into the design for me to entertain using em. Have the folks at Mastervolt provided you with their answer to this concern?
Hallo Aussie , no we did not the people that produce them told me that there would be no significant advantage over the lithium units and much more weight so we are only focused on the Lithium units , Life Po have been tested on short circuiting them and even than the chaces of a fire are minimal because of its ability to self suffocate.
Battery monitoring and balancing is installe din each battery and all safety precautions are taken , overcharging is not possible and there is plkenty of space in the units to get rid of heat buildup. The only real problem is price , a complete set as shown for our cats runs around the 40000 euro mark.
I have attached how the battery balancing ( not cell balancing ) is done on our cats.

Greetings

Gideon
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File Type: pdf lithium ion cell leveling small.pdf (303.6 KB, 117 views)
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Old 28-04-2009, 12:28   #413
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I am re-powering my 34' Moody with the 260i system from electric yacht: Does anyone have any recommendation about batteries for a 72 volt system?

Electric Yacht - Electric Yachts Mission
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Old 30-05-2009, 01:06   #414
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Originally Posted by BrandyIsland View Post
I am re-powering my 34' Moody with the 260i system from electric yacht: Does anyone have any recommendation about batteries for a 72 volt system?

Electric Yacht - Electric Yachts Mission
Hallo Brandy

why not use 3 mastervolt lithium ion batterys in series to create 75 volts nominal and have
13 kw power available, that way you should be able to motor for 3 hours without starting a generator.
greetings
gideon
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Old 30-05-2009, 09:53   #415
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Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
In the Green Motion system we use 3 solar panels to charge 3 banks of lithium Ion Phosphate each 48 volts , each of these panels charges one of these 48 volt banks and these are installed in series to get to the required 144 volts.
The BMS ( battery monitoring system ) equalizes the 12 Lithium batterys .
Each of these panels has a Wp of 300 or in a sunny climate we get 5 Kw per day in .
Enough to charge a depleted system of 17 Kw in 3 days .
Presently we use the valence U 24 XP units with a weight of 15.5 kilo each or a total weight for the propulsion side of 186 kilo.
In order to make use of this power bank we use a victron Scylla 100 amp converter that automatically charges the 24 volt ( lithium Ion ) house bank when needed.
A 4th 300 Wp solar panel charges directly into the house bank together with a masthead mounted wind generator.
The way our Green Motion system is designed makes the use of the single 16 Kw diesel generator only neccesary in an emergency or during long periods without any wind.
Regards

Gideon Goudsmit
African Cats Ltd
All very innovative stuff Gideon, when I read your post, it sounds as though you actually have a boat working with these systems.

As far as I know, this is not the case, the boat isn't even launched yet and is a year delayed already.

So how much actual experience do you have with the Green Motion system? First you were proclaiming all the good things about the Valence batteries, now it's Mastervolt. In another post you admit to not using the Valence batteries???

Please be a bit clearer on what are plans/ideas and what in actual fact is a working and proven system, otherwise I for one get a bit confused.

Alan
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Old 31-05-2009, 09:18   #416
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Hallo Nordic I hope you are well.
Valence are good battery's but the company is no longer intersted in marine applications and therefore very hard to work with.( we have used their units in the past and a few cats are equipped with them without problems )
that is the first reason for our switch to Mastervolt.
The second reason is that Mastervolt is a marine oriented company and very helpfull in getting their batteries into the Green Motion system and for that matter into the marine market in general.
The third reason for us to switch is the Ah per battery , 160 usable instead of 130 and the max amp drawn per hour is also much higher.
No the Green Motion system is not a year delayed , We have had a boat in the water since January for testing purposes and after a few hickups it is now working as expected.
The System has been tested for well over 3000 hours in a basin and the retraction system has made 1500 + cycles but as is normally the case with a new product from the moment testing starts the aim is to improve on the system before starting to market it and that is where we are now.

How is your beautifull cat coming along ?
Are you first building a plug or using a male mould and a sail away plug ?
I like the looks of your bi rig very much.

best regards

Gideon
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Old 31-05-2009, 10:06   #417
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More Info

Hello Gideon,

i was wondering if you could clarify a few things for me. i am very interested to learn more about your system. some details and pictures would be great.

you mentioned that you have 3000 hours of testing on the new boat you launched in January. If you have been out testing every day for 5 months that would be about 20 hours for every single day????? is this correct?

The 1500 cycles for the retraction system also would be about 10 a day for every single day of the last 5 months. Have you really been that active? What kind of results have you seen?

i find the approach fascinating and would truly like to see more detail.

thanks

Steve
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Old 31-05-2009, 10:35   #418
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Hallo Steve the 3000 hours of testing have been done in our salt water basin over the last 18 months and are finished the same with the 1500 cycles this was also done in the basin. we have got to make the system perfect since lives could depend on it.
The first boat ( monohull ) with the system installed was launched in January and is tried and tested on a almost daily basis. this boat is used for sail training so she is in and out of the harbor

greetings
gideon
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Old 31-05-2009, 16:54   #419
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[quote=fastcat435;288004]
Quote:
No the Green Motion system is not a year delayed ,
According to your customers on Butterfly, who seem to be in touch with the owner, who says it is now delayed by a year. This sounds pretty logical as Butterfly was also nearly a year late, and left Durban with some unresolved issues.

Quote:
We have had a boat in the water since January for testing purposes and after a few hickups it is now working as expected.
Is this the fastcat or the mono you have mentioned?


Quote:
The System has been tested for well over 3000 hours in a basin and the retraction system has made 1500 + cycles but as is normally the case with a new product from the moment testing starts the aim is to improve on the system before starting to market it and that is where we are now.
So what batteries have been used in this test? You posted some pictures like the ones above from a test bassin about a year ago, at that time you were pushing the Valence batteries that you were a distrubutor for.

Is the test simply to check out the electrical drives?

If not, has the test been done with one or 2 sets of batteries? Please tell us which ones.

My conclusion from your answers above is that you do not have a Fastcat with the green motion system actually working with the system.

How can you quote performance numbers, ranges etc. when this has not actually been tested?

When I read your posts, I get the impression that the system is tried and tested, and not only in a bassin, yet the truth is not nearly as exciting????

Please help avoid this confusion by clearly stating facts and not what you are aiming to achieve, well at least state the difference between facts and design goals.

We had the same discussions regarding the weight of the Fastcats, as well as performance, where it turned out that you were claiming minimum 20% better performance than what in actual fact had actually been measured, and weights that were at least 25% too low, compared to the actual weight of the boats.

The concept of hybrid drives is an interesting one, so please keep us informed, and not misinformed.

Alan
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Old 01-06-2009, 02:25   #420
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Hallo Nordic as stated we have a monohull in the water with the green motion system in place and working. I do not know what the owner of Butterfly is talking about since I am the owner of Green eMotion and I have not talked to them ,
In the basin testing we have used AGM batteries since weight is no issue on the ground.
The Monohull has now been tested for 6 months in the Dutch waters.
All Fastcats 445 come in at or below 6500 kilo but if owners ad 2000 kilos of gear the weight goes up, The Butterfly was within its weight limits as stated by the owner.

Gideon
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