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Old 01-10-2006, 11:48   #271
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I'm not yet up to speed on how to quote from your posts soooo... Steve said, "We could start with a Lagoon 420 topic on this board to gather interest. There's enough Lagoon 420 references on this site to draw attention of other owners. There may be a few others quietly watching. Should be pretty easy to start one off. Detailed conversations off line of course. What do you think?____________________________________________ __________________ Steve, I think a board for just the 420 is a good idea, but I have no idea how to let other know about it or start the ball rolling. As far as the parts co-op, my charter company (TMM) is willing to work with other charter co's (Cat co, Horizon)and 420 owners to coordinate a parts network so each could stock different parts and share their stock with others. TMM is trying to get Lagoon to suggest a must have parts list. Also we need to find out from Lagoon who warrants the drive system, and how long would it take to get a replacement for a major part like a controller or motor, and who would be the contact in the LeRoy-Somer company for helping get a part to you as soon as possible. If you could give me your email address I will forward on a copy of the Lagoon letter on to you, as I don't think I should post it on the web. Fair sailing, Douglas
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Old 01-10-2006, 16:28   #272
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I have just set up a new thread on this board to get the ball rolling. Please take a look. Riot - thanks for the letter.
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Old 02-10-2006, 10:34   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet Riot 420
(I think this may be corporate talk for we have a glitch). Fair Winds, Douglas in Michigan


How due you rate the lifeline batteries? http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marinecomps.php .Or can the Valence Technology, Inc. Lithium-ion batterie technology even be rated on that system? http://www.valence.com/ucharge.asp If so how does it stand? Hope to see you at the show. Steve Merrill, stevem4u@sbcglobal.net
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Old 02-10-2006, 11:16   #274
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Steve M, I have sent 2 emails to Lifeline batteries and never got any reply. Their lower Ah batteries have a low Peukerk exponent ( 1.125 to about 1.165, but when you get up to their larger batteries around 210 Ah for their GPL-4DA the Peukerk Exponent has risen to over 1.3, not very good. I ask them about this rise in the exponent in my email that they didn't bother to answer. I think you might be farther ahead to use 2 of their 105 Ah batteries in parallel to get a better system for large amperage draw. As far as Valence batteries, yes they also have a Peukert Exponent (you might have noticed that the battery companies don't publish the Peukert Exponents for their batteries, you have to calculate it yourself). Because these batteries are still so expensive I have not researched them much. To replace the standard batteries on the Lagoon 420 would cost me well over $40,000, and that's just plain crazy! Fair Sailing Douglas
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Old 02-10-2006, 11:26   #275
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Annapolis, Friday 5th, 12:30pm - Lagoon 420

All,

How many intend to meet up at Annapolis this Friday at the above time?

I'll get to the stand a little before 12:30 and let the rep (by the L420) know I'm trying to hook up with other owners for lunch. Suggest you do the same. If we know numbers, we can wait if one is missing.

Steve
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Old 02-10-2006, 12:09   #276
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African cats uses Valence as a standard battery for their electric drive systems. You can go with a electric for the same price as their diesel.
They must have a very good deal with Valence to keep the prices down, but the weight savings with that and other things on the boat make her one of the fastest sailors around.
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Old 02-10-2006, 12:15   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet Riot 420
Steve M, . To replace the standard batteries on the Lagoon 420 would cost me well over $40,000, and that's just plain crazy! Fair Sailing Douglas


Thanks for the info Douglas, yes sir re, that's too much money, and African Cats told me they expected that to come down 20% next year. (They are an option with them now) But even $32,000 is horrendous! If you Google battery breakthrough, youíll find some amazing new stuff out there now and it will just keep on improving Iím sure. Iím more interested in the new model JIL-3000 solar panel. http://dbksolar.com/
Specifications Panels
The specification include the embedded or attached dc-dc inverter with is physically part of the panel. The input into the dc-dc inverter is 950 Watts.
Product Name and Description
JIL-1500
JIL-3000
Rated Power (Watts)
1500
3000
Series Fusing (Amps)
8
15
Current at Max Power (Amps)
7
14
Voltage at Max. Power (DC Volts)
220
220
Short Circuit Current (Amps)
7.6
14.8
Length (Inches)
40
50
Width
30
40
Depth of Frame (inches)
2
2
Shipping Weight (lbs)
40
50


Steve M
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Old 03-10-2006, 12:32   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet Riot 420
I will be going to the Annapolis show to see the new 420,(we have hull #11) and would indeed like to meet with other potential owners. Because we have a demo sail on the 420 set for 1:00 P.M. on Tues. the 10th, I will not be arriving at the show until Sunday afternoon. If any of you will still be around at this time let me know, as I think that a 420 owners group would be a very positive thing when dealing with Lagoon over warranty issues and other problems with the boat. Did any of you future owners see the letter from Dieter Gust (CEO CNB/Lagoon) to the various U.S. dealers apoligizing for yet another delay in the production schedule dated Sept 29th? My delivery date (ex-factory) has been moved back again by about 6 weeks until Jan. 25th, 2007. Fair Winds, Douglas in Michigan
(hull #14) I have just been informed that my launch date is now 28 March 2007 and could be later!!!!! Oh well!!! I was in the process of transfering my next payment!!!! Seems like some of us are geting more timely and better information than others.

Seems a long time from hull number 11 to hull number 14 - two months???? also I have heard that hull number 5 has now been pushed back to Nov 06 or later. They have built two that I know of. Where is their 3 to 4 boats per week??? Soooo reading between the lines, I agree that the delays seem like some form of design or system glitch?? Hope is not a disaster in the making!!!!!!

Am trying to get to Annapolis but have business committments that are burning me. Would really love to get together with other L420 owners - or should I say, people who have plonked down the money!!! Not too sure when I can make it at this time. Also, have been informed that the L420 may NOT be at Ft. Lauderdale show and mine was slated for the Miami show and certainly will not make that date. Maybe some other boat will but mine will not.

Is good in a way, as I wanted to sail from France anyhow and this now give me a chance with better weather and not having a show committment.

On the batteries, I agree that we are all going to enter a steep learning curve. I am happy to plug along with the batteries provided and when they croak, replace with whatever is available at the time. Think even 12 months is a long time in development at the moment. Things are moving quickely.

On the AC I would be very interested in what you are looking at. I was going to fit a whatever?? system once the boat was in the US. Same with the water maker, inverter, Radar and washer/dryer. If I sail from France, I will be going to BVI so your parts thingo looks interesting. I do intend to fit the remainder of the 'C' pack myself before I leave France and hope to bring the bits with me in personal baggage (GPS and E120 along with the Sea Talk cabling etc). Anything purchased in France is expensive due to the taxes etc.

Would like to be part of a board for L420 owners. Think you experienced sailors could help me greately!!!! And I would be more than willing to share whatever information/experiences I can gleam.
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Old 03-10-2006, 17:25   #279
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[quote=Quiet Riot 420]
Hay Douglas in Michigan, I'm landing at BWI on Saturday Oct 07, 10:15AM departing Tuesday late afternoon and I'm supposed to get a ride on a 420 but have not heard the time yet. Haven'r been able to get hold of my broker yet! Do you know anyone their handling that so I can contact them? Hope we can get together next weekend.
Steven G. Merrill.
3660 Boulder Highway, #522, Las Vegas Nevada 89121
PH (650) 796-3324ß E-Mail stevem4u@sbcglobal.net
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Old 03-10-2006, 19:23   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Cronk
(hull #14) I have just been informed that my launch date is now 28 March 2007 and could be later!!!!!
See my post on the new thread I created for Lagoon owners. I have been informed that I am actually hull #20 (not #42) and that by delivery date of Feb 1st (which I was never told) has been moved to March 9th.

What we seem to have is :
#11 : Jan 25th
#14 : March 28th
#20 : March 9th

#14 look like the outlier. Between #11 & #20 that's 9 boats in about 6 weeks which might be right for the first 20. I'd check with your broker and tell them what you're hearing from other owners. I have heard some weird stuff about US hull numbers versus manufacturers hull number. Maybe yours is the 14th boat in the US.

Steve
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Old 04-10-2006, 00:25   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Cronk
(hull #14) Anything purchased in France is expensive due to the taxes etc.
Peter

You'll be able to claim the VAT (tax) back on anything you purchase in France as you will be exporting it outside of the European Union.
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Old 04-10-2006, 10:27   #282
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Peter

You'll be able to claim the VAT (tax) back on anything you purchase in France as you will be exporting it outside of the European Union.
Ah of course. Thanks for that I had forgotten.

Am really confused on these hull numbers and delivery times????? Obviously #20 is not going to come before #20 unless the fitout is changing the order?? Think there is a deal of confusion reining supreme with the dearlers/brokers.
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Old 04-10-2006, 14:54   #283
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Regarding DBK and their new JIL 3000, I have been involved in about a dozen email exchanges with them so far, and its frustrating. I am a real serious potential customer, building a new home on a tropical island, and interested in solar. All I can get is very vague stuff. They are telling me that they are using RF from the sun to power and amplify the 700 watts from the panel up to the 3 kw....uh...wait a minute.

The most I can get is that its NEW technology, and there are people out there who dont want this technology to succeed. For my new home, I am getting basically "just give us $ 28,000 and dont worry...."

So, I am talking to the Kyocera rep in the DR.
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Old 04-10-2006, 15:29   #284
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Interesting -- Obviously, what you do is your business, but when I hear stuff like that I tell them, first, show me your work, then I'll decide whether I show you any of my money. Sounds like they don't want to show you their work.

ID
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Old 04-10-2006, 15:42   #285
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well I dont want to take up too much space here, but heres some typical exchanges:

(me in boldface)
I did a quick Google on the DBK 3000 watt panel, and ran across a number of sceptics, to be blunt. The question that keeps coming up is:

50in X 40in = ~1.3 sq m
1 sq m of sunlight is roughly 1350W of power on average at the distance of the earth from the sun BEFORE accounting for atmospheric losses and WITH consideration of a 90 degree angle of incidence.


and
It's pretty clear that even with a 100% conversion efficiency, they couldn't generate more than 1200W with a panel that size (50x40"), to say nothing of the fact that the shadow produced by the panel indicates that they're not getting max solar to produce their "3000W". To say nothing of the lack of a load. Got to be a hoax.

I am sure you are used to hearing and reading this stuff. How do you respond to them?

(DBK)
"

I forgot to tell you in my last email. Our panel gets 700 watts from the sun to our panel and the rest is electronic amplification to bring it up to 3000 watts.
We have a patent on the system, it is our this is not a HOAX inspite of what the skeptic's are saying.

(Me)




Well, I am no expert in these things. But I do know that in order to amplify something it takes power. Where do your amplification devices get their power?

Ah, is this somehow tied in with your fuel cell operation? That would mean that the yearly maintenance costs would mostly be replenishing a fuel cell?

Or am I way off base?

(DBK)
"

We use the sun to power the amplification process, the sun wave is similar to rf wave. New technology for solar panels.

The maintenance is to check out the whole system. Our mission is to protect you and the invention, there are powers that would not like to see this invention get out. So, our details are limited."

(Me):
So, if I understand, you are pulling something out of the sunlight other than the photovoltaic? in other words, the sunlight amplifies itself?

Are you going to have technical observers at your upcoming demonstrations?
I would be most interested to see an unbiased third party's write up of it. Someone other than DBK employees or dealers.

Please keep me informed."

(There were more exchanges, but thats as technical as they've gotten with me.
I aint gonna buy one just yet.)
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