Electric Main Drive(s)

[ess105]

Originally Posted by Peter Cronk

Any info you have I would appreciate. ie on the controler etc. also what chart plotters you find. I have been watching the E120 and price seems to be coming down some. I am hoping some more yet by the time boat gets here in Feb or whenever?? I am also happy to share what we have found on our bits and pieces.

More than happy to but bear in mind my refit is planned after 2-3 years of chartering so my horizons are different. Let's chat in Annapolis.

[Intentional Drifter]

Peter --

Best price I've seen on the E120, yet, is $3772 at Fisheries Supply. Lagoon is charging basically $7K for the plotter, installed. Judge for yourself whether that is worth it. Ray Marine has the manual and installation instructions posted. Doesn't look that hard, to me.

ID

[ess105]

I would be prepared to pay a little more than basement price to go with a dealer who will support me if I have a problem. West Marine sell the E120 for $3,899.99 and I've heard good things about their return policy. Not sure if I'd necessarily go with them but I would factor this into my decision.

I may end up doing my refit in St Martin. Does anyone know how their Duty Free prices compare for these sorts of units?


Re Lagoon charging $7k. I couldn't figure this out and like Peter Cronk stated before, I will also benefit from the learning associated with fitting this myself. I may need a stiff drink after cutting holes in my boat. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

[stevem4u]

[quote=Peter Cronk][quote=stevem4u][quote=Peter Cronk]

Went back to find the link:
Thanks!

I was told Lagoon would install whatever electronics equipment is the most up to date. If they don't, I'll be looking at doing it myself as well.
I’ve also been thinking about using the>

Hoyt Jib Boom, http://www.mauriprosailing.com/Forespar/Forespar-Hoyt-Jib-Boom-System.htm

Dutchman main sail flaking system, http://www.mvbinfo.com/dp_03_SF_preferred_by.html

Also the XYZ Anchor, http://www.xyzanchor.com/anchor_facts.htm.

Know anything about these? Steve M

[stevem4u]

Originally Posted by ess105

I would be prepared to pay a little more than basement price to go with a dealer who will support me if I have a problem. West Marine sell the E120 for $3,899.99 and I've heard good things about their return policy. Not sure if I'd necessarily go with them but I would factor this into my decision.

I may end up doing my refit in St Martin. Does anyone know how their Duty Free prices compare for these sorts of units?


Re Lagoon charging $7k. I couldn't figure this out and like Peter Cronk stated before, I will also benefit from the learning associated with fitting this myself. I may need a stiff drink after cutting holes in my boat. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

You Bet! SM. I see the Raymarine E120 Multifunction Display E02013R Refurbishedon E-bay for $2,849.99. That’s a good deal?
http://item.express.ebay.com/Vehicle-Parts-Accessories_Boat-Watercraft-Parts-Accessories-Gear__Raymarine-E120-Multifunction-Display-E02013R-Refurb_W0QQitemZ290007564225QQihZ019QQddnZVehicleQ 20PartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQadnZBoatQ20Q26Q20Wate rcraftQ20PartsQ2cQ20AccessoriesQ20Q26Q20GearQQcmdZ ExpressItem

I'm also looking for charting software that works with Raymarine and plots a corrected course for current satellite downloaded weather and sea conditions. I spent over 10 years as a weatherman in the navy and USWB, so know how important good data is and how bad it can be micro forecasted. (As in see “The Gentleman's Guide to Passages South”) I like the Maxtech program with routing and polar’s but it doesn’t use Navionics Platinum which I read has the best charts! Anyone know anything about “SeaPro Marine Navigation Software”? Or anything else??? Steve M

[ess105]

Have you looked at Raymarine's own charting s/w? I'm hoping to find a demo of this at Annapolis. Integration with onboard plotter(s) should be less problematical.

[Intentional Drifter]

You can actually download a "planning" version of the Raymarine s/w from their website. This will certainly give you an idea about it. It does integrate with their plotters.

ID

[Agility]

Originally Posted by ess105

Have you looked at Raymarine's own charting s/w? I'm hoping to find a demo of this at Annapolis. Integration with onboard plotter(s) should be less problematical.

Just my $.02 but I looked at the Raymarine chartplotter and the intergration in 2001 and was sold on Nobeltech. I ran my boat (Atlantic, Med and Carribean) from my PC and wouldn't have done it any other way. Granted, I am a tech guy but the program was easy to use, the charts were installable from CD rom and the quality of the vector based passport charts imho is far superior to any raster based chart. I did buy one chart package for my Raymarine chartplotter and it was difficult to use and of relatively low quality.

If you are comfortable with PC's and are willing to maintain a backup PC on board I would make Nobeltech the brain for navigation and autopilot control.

[stevem4u]

Originally Posted by ess105

Have you looked at Raymarine's own charting s/w? I'm hoping to find a demo of this at Annapolis. Integration with onboard plotter(s) should be less problematical.

I spoke with the software expert at Alameda CA.'s 'Waypoint' store. They sell charts and software, http://www.waypoints.com/ She tells me the Raymarine V6.0 software has been a disaster, what ever that means. She recommends a FURUNO 1834 Navnet vx2 chartplotter with MaxSea software as the best out there as of now.

“With Navigator+, MaxSea offers an entry-level system developed for the US market. You can connect your GPS and autopilot, download/overlay weather, and perform advanced planning. You can begin using Navigator+ right out of the box with free, detailed raster charts (1064) for the U.S. that are included on DVD. Navigator+ allows you to use your favorite detailed charts from MapMedia, Maptech, Softcharts, NDI and C-MAP NT. –
Not only does MaxSea provide free access to the most comprehensive weather data available, it gives you the ability to really use it.
The two most important factors involved in achieving optimum courses are the weather forecast and speed of the sailboat. Other influences include tidal and ocean currents that may cause the boat to drift significantly.
Many of our competitors attempt to pass off "the optimization of boat speed in relation to the wind" as routing. This is not true routing. MaxSea offers "true routing", which uses an algorithmic method to determine the optimum route.
Click here for an in-deth article written by MaxSea founder, Brice Pryszo.
Click here to see our Weather Routing Rolling Demo
High winds can slow boat speed tremendously, but more importantly, create an unsafe environment for the vessel and its crew. MaxSea routing is very safe. The routing algorithm automatically compensates for increased winds and avoids sending the boater into unsafe conditions.
”.

[Peter Cronk]

If you are comfortable with PC's and are willing to maintain a backup PC on board I would make Nobeltech the brain for navigation and autopilot control.[/quote]

I must admit I havent researched this yet so your information is timely. BTW, I have been informed that my boat is scheduled to be launched on 12/22/06 so we shall see. I have been told that Lagoon have closed the power boat line so that they can catch up on the L420 backlog.

With the nobeltec system, what were you using as a monitor at the helm station? or could we use the E120 (I guess a real expensive monitor if that is what its function will end up) as a waterproof monitor at the helm. Also the only way of controlling what is on the monitor is from the computer so infers that you need to control this from the nav station and not from the helm. Pleasae excuse my ignorance here and I continue to confuse my pilot timeline experiences with the longer time frames of sailing. Is having control of the displays etc important from the helm?? Could the E120 be used for control of the computer functions??

[Agility]

Originally Posted by Peter Cronk

If you are comfortable with PC's and are willing to maintain a backup PC on board I would make Nobeltech the brain for navigation and autopilot control.

...

With the nobeltec system, what were you using as a monitor at the helm station? or could we use the E120 (I guess a real expensive monitor if that is what its function will end up) as a waterproof monitor at the helm. Also the only way of controlling what is on the monitor is from the computer so infers that you need to control this from the nav station and not from the helm. Pleasae excuse my ignorance here and I continue to confuse my pilot timeline experiences with the longer time frames of sailing. Is having control of the displays etc important from the helm?? Could the E120 be used for control of the computer functions??

I don't think the E120 would act as a computer moniter to display another chartplotter's picutre.

Your mileage may vary but here's a piture of what I did.




I would do all my planning and plotting of waypoints on my PC. Doing it on my Raymarine multifunction display was slow and time consuming. So much so that I think it totally changes how you use waypoints. I used to set a bunch of waypoints and would even put waypoints inside channels and harbors and over the anchor. I would always put waypoints an appropriate distance from any potential hazards including channel markers or shipping lanes. With the autopilot in track mode I'd simple need to "Ok" the waypoint arrival alarm and the boat would steer to the next waypoint. I did all of this from the Autopilot head. From time to time I wanted to change my route and would go to the touch screen display in the cockpit and move waypoints around while keeping the autopilot disengaged from the chartplotter tracking mode into auto mode.

I was not able to get the waypoints to upload into the Raymarine system but perhaps this was because I didn't buy the seatalk interface and only had a nema interface. Raymarine is a bit of a pain regarding playing well with the other manufacturers but I still like them regardless. Having said that, I'm not sure I would have used the upload feature anyway. I only wanted to upload for backup purposes.

I would typically spend 15-30 minutes looking at the weather overlays, the current overlay, route planning and setting up all the waypoints for the voyage. I would also use the ETA calculator to determine better windows for departure. Much more valuable than just waypoints.

In a monohull it was very nice to have a touchscreen in the cockpit. Running downstairs in a tight situation can be risky, especially if you're shorthanded. If you have the ability to make changes to your route while keeping an eye on traffic and conditions it's a big plus. My touchscreen was supposedly watertight and appropriate for my application. It broke 3 times and was a real pain to get serviced. I became so dependant on it I didn't enjoy cruising in new places without it. There is an incredible peace of mind to know that your boat is +/- 3 meters from where you planned to be on your chartplotter. It's even nicer to see your boat right on the middle of a high quality, appropriately scaled, heads up display of your chart.

Some will argue the merits of this approach and I would agree with the cautionary tails about trusting your computer over your eyes and good judgment. However, as a primary input into your decision making I found the quality and depth of information from a PC based chartplotter dramatically better than a special purpose chartplotter burned into a marine monitor.

Looking at the 420, I might forgo the PC monitor at the helm and put in a larger monitor on an articulating arm at the nav station. Maybe a nice 21" lcd if I could see if from the helm. To justify the huge expense it would double as my TV/Audio/Entertainment center. I'd also get a cheaper smaller laptop computer and plan to use the big screen as the monitor for all of the computer work. I'm just a little worried about how much battery power the monitor would suck, hence the LCD over plasma.

I haven't looked at the radar overlay that the Nobeltech folks sell but I would consider buying theirs if I was confident enough that radar overlay was useful and that the antenna similar quality to the Raymarine. I really liked the MARPA features on the Raymarine radar and I think you probably need another dedicated display for the radar anyway so I'm unsure of the benefits of combining the two. Even though I had 2 PCs I really liked having the Raymarine as a backup that would accept manual waypoints and track to it in the case of a failure of the PC based system. The Marpa feature may have saved our lives one nite in Italy when a fast ferry going 40 knots changed course and passed within 100 feet. It also let me sleep when my wife would get worried about that dot on the radar 20 miles away. She quickly learned to Marpa it and let me sleep until we were on a collision course and within 5 Kmiles. I think Nobeltech has this feature but it's highly dependant on the quality of the signal and the algorithm and for some reason I trust Ratheon to have a better algorithm. I'd put the Raymarine radar wherever you plan to be on watch at night. My guess would be at the nav station? I did find that in modes when you really want to use the radar you typically don't look at the chartplotter and vice versa. However, I didn't shoot a lot of approaches into tight harbors at night or in fog.

In 18 months, I never ran aground, I never got lost, I was never late on arrival. Once or twice I plotted a course over a reef but noticed quickly as other indicators became apparent. The PC crashed a few times. Once approaching the southernmost harbor in Grenada with 35 knots on the nose 8 - 12 foot seas. My PC froze up and I had to dead recon into a channel with a critical first marker missing that could have put me on a reef if I cut the corner. Luckily I had entered the harbor a week earlier in good weather and noticed the missing marking when my waypoint alarm went off and I marked the missing marker for future reference. I question if I would have even noticed if I was using paper chart or the Raymarine chartplotter.

[Peter Cronk]

[quote=BlueRhapCity]I don't think the E120 would act as a computer moniter to display another chartplotter's picutre.

Wow. Really good information. I like the LCD idea.

Looks like I need to do some learning and research on a system. What are you planning to install. Are you still putting in a E120??

Do you have your hull number yet?

Again thanks for the information.

Peter

[Agility]

[quote=Peter Cronk]

Originally Posted by BlueRhapCity

I don't think the E120 would act as a computer moniter to display another chartplotter's picutre.

Wow. Really good information. I like the LCD idea.

Looks like I need to do some learning and research on a system. What are you planning to install. Are you still putting in a E120??

Do you have your hull number yet?

Again thanks for the information.

Peter

I haven't put any cash down yet. I plan to look hard at the 420 at the show. I have a daughter in 10th grade and need to wait until she graduates before we start our circumnavigation. We plan to buy in the next 12 months or so.


After my post I did look at the Nobeltec site and I did see a portable wireless display that looks linteresting. I like the idea but worry about connectivity over wifi. It's just another think to break, but might be interesting. Peraps use it is as a fair weather repreater at the helm or even in the front cockpit??

[RandyAbernethy]

The E120 has SVideo input and if your computer's graphics card has SVideo out you can monitor your computer screen on the E120 (good for watching movies or charts).

[Agility]

Originally Posted by RandyAbernethy

The E120 has SVideo input and if your computer's graphics card has SVideo out you can monitor your computer screen on the E120 (good for watching movies or charts).

SVideo would work but I question if it would have enough resoultion to be useful. I don't know the useful limits on cable length for SVideo, you might need to figure that out. I think it's a reasonable thing to look at and do.

Also, of course you couldn't interact with the program but I'm not convinced that's completely necessary. I used to get up all the time from the helm to walk over to the screen. That would be about the same as walking into the salon.