Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-09-2006, 07:07   #226
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Right now, Australia
Boat: Lagoon 420
Posts: 587
Images: 4
In my case, this time last year I was in the middle of researching cats as well as electric propulsion. There was info on the web about Waypoint which was informative. At the time, the financials for Solomon were not looking too encouraging so I had a desire but no way to go. When we went to Annapolis in '05 we were given a presentation by Lagoon on the planned 420. Hadn't even heard of it before then. The concept seemed sound. We were offered an early deal. We took it.
__________________

__________________
ess105 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-09-2006, 07:48   #227
Registered User

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Eureka, California
Boat: Lagoon 420 -Avanga
Posts: 125
ess,

That is exactly what happened to us. We went to Annapolis last year to see the Lagoon 500 when they told us about a new model that was really exciting. We also were familiar with the Solomon and Waypoint stories. I have been closely following catamaran development for 20 years and the concept seemed great. The Lagoon 500 was HUGE. Maybe a bit too much although I've never really come to a conclusion on that issue. The Sunreef 60 also seems wonderful. I like the 420 helm vs the flybridge.

They told me the price of the L420 would go up substatially after the boat was launched. We signed. I must say, a lot of doubt crept in while we waited for her to be launched.

I still say the L420 could use two feet transom extentions, her transoms are dragging through the water. I want to buy some extra wood for interior work as well.

Who knows what options will be available in 6 months?
__________________

__________________
planetoftheapes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-09-2006, 08:34   #228
CF Adviser
 
Intentional Drifter's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,283
I first heard of what would become the 420 back when it was being referred to as the 405. This was in early '05. At the time, Lagoon was apparently still looking at the Solomon system. I was following the Waypoint story, and had also talked to a local owner of another Solomon 410, Magic. Their experiences were pretty positive, but with some concerns.

For my wife and I, the advantages of a electric drive system are pretty important, particularly in the reduction of fossil fuel emissions and cost, as well as the quietness that can be achieved while motoring. We had hoped for more weight reduction, and perhaps that will eventually come when/if the Lithium battery advances can be operationalized into a reasonably priced alternative. In the meantime, we'll stick with the tried and true wet cells, since we simply can't afford a FastCat. (African Cats says that the Valance batteries saves almost 800 lbs in weight.)

Our concerns about the electric drives basically boil down to two: troubleshooting/repairing problems with the unconventional system, particularly in the controllers and logic systems (frankly, we're really hoping that these will be minimal); and issues with galvanic corrosion. We understand that the corrosion issue was significant with the Waypoint class of 410's, so hopefully Lagoon has worked to understand and minimize these problems on the 420.

We also like the 420 layout - it is among the best we've seen in this size of cat. I do agree with Planet, though, about the transoms and you can see a bit of that in the video, I believe. My guess is that Lagoon doesn't want the boat competing too much with the 440.

ID
__________________
Intentional Drifter

Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Intentional Drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-09-2006, 09:38   #229
Registered User
 
Jeannius's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Worcester U.K.
Boat: Privilege 435 Now Sold
Posts: 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by ess105
How much of the breakages to the charterers typically cover? I was under the impression they were largely liable.
Not as much as I think they should. Firstly, they don't always tell the charter company what they've broken. 2nd the charter co don't always spot what's broken. Finally, even if charter co do spot it they often don't charge the charterer as they want them to come back!

Remember... It is far easier for a charterer to switch allegiance than it is for a boat owner to move a boat to a new charter company. So.. Who's going to get looked after the best?


Don't get me wrong, overall I'm happy with the deal, but expenses are definitely higher than I ever thought they'd be.
__________________
Mike

http://sailingjeannius.blogspot.com
Jeannius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-09-2006, 10:21   #230
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hawaii
Boat: Still Looking
Posts: 61
“I still say the L420 could use two feet transom extensions, her transoms are dragging through the water.”
My broker; Rod Gibbons, Cruising Cats USA. http://www.cruisingcatsusa.com/
told me he was impressed while he was in France earlier, when he saw the way they had flattened a large area of the boat at the underwater transom extensions. This is supposed to counteract the tendency of a boat to “squat” when the power is applied. Steve M
__________________
stevem4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-09-2006, 10:40   #231
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRhapCity
Any speculation that Lagoon will be announcing other Hybrid options in their range at the show?


How did you guys find out about the 420 so long before it was announced?
I was at the Ft. Lauderdale Show and my broker was trying to sell me a 410. Did not like the layout of the saloon and have sailed on 410s and is very cluttered (do really like the layout of the 410 owners side - desk, storage etc). After he realised I was not going to spring for a 410 and was looking serious at a Leporard, he showed me the L420 mockups. I signed at the show. I liked the sailing of the 410 and liked the layout of the 420. I assumed the sailing qualities would be similar to the 410 and the build quality of Lagoon is very good - African Cat is a super boat (have sailed on one and is really fast!!) but build quality is suspect and they are expensive. Lagoon as a company have been building boats for a while and are recoganised as leaders in strong comfortable cruising cats. So my decision was based on their reputation as well. I also do not like the flybridge helm. Is cool for a weekend sail with friends but I would not like to be doing a watch up there at o'dark:30 in the blowing rain!!! Just do not think is practical for a cruising cat. That is why they have the Joystick helm in the salon of the 440. Add up how much a fully fitted out 440 is and your head starts to spin!!!!! Unfortunatly I am just not in that league

For the small imperfections, I am willing to forgive Lagoon and look forward to getting my boat whenever??? Is impossible to please everyone and had always assumed that I would be doing some building myself anyhow. I do plan to fit most of the electrical (inverter, washer/dryer etc) and electronics (Raday E120 GPS etc) myself. So suggestions on brands and models etc you may have come accross would be apprecisted.

PC
__________________
Peter Cronk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-09-2006, 15:13   #232
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hawaii
Boat: Still Looking
Posts: 61
[quote=Peter Cronk]That is why they have the Joystick helm in the salon of the 440.
Also is an option on the 420! Steve M
__________________
stevem4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-09-2006, 15:50   #233
CF Adviser
 
Intentional Drifter's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,283
Help me understand how the joystick rudder control would be of any practical use in these boats. Seems to me that if you're maneuvering in close quarters with the motors, I certainly wouldn't want to be in a visibility restricted area like the salon. But, if I'm changing course while sailing or motoring in open areas, I'd more than likely just do that with the autopilot. If I needed to then trim sails, I would be outside, anyway.

Is there something I'm missing? Otherwise, it just seems like something that takes up valuable space at the nav station, or would attract unskilled hands as a nice gadget with which to play.

ID
__________________
Intentional Drifter

Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Intentional Drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-09-2006, 17:36   #234
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hawaii
Boat: Still Looking
Posts: 61
[quote=Intentional Drifter]
seems like something that takes up valuable space at the nav station, or would attract unskilled hands as a nice gadget with which to play.

The joy stick and throttle looks small enough in the video. For the extra $1,250 dollar option (likely would cost more to do later) I personally would like the flexibility of having its sheltered maneuverability if needed. Like if I ever (heaven forbid) go back to Alaska. Steve M
__________________
stevem4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-09-2006, 17:53   #235
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 23
[quote=stevem4u]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intentional Drifter
seems like something that takes up valuable space at the nav station, or would attract unskilled hands as a nice gadget with which to play.

The joy stick and throttle looks small enough in the video. For the extra $1,250 dollar option (likely would cost more to do later) I personally would like the flexibility of having its sheltered maneuverability if needed. Like if I ever (heaven forbid) go back to Alaska. Steve M
I tend to agree. especially looking at the price!!!! There is a good story on the lagoon site by Indigo Moon on using the inside auto pilot unit as a psuedo manual helm (1 degree at a time) for helm duties duriing dirty weather. Mmmm the Joystick may be OK but I would like to know how many people have used and how effective it is. Choosing another Auto Pilot display/unit for inside does a similar job and is something
I planed to have there anyhow. Think I need some more data before shelling out the bucks for the joystick and in my case is too late. In our case our Helm is in a good position and I have orded the soft windscreen for the Bimini so should be somewhat protected. That is what I hope anyhow. For the 440 I do see the case for having an alternative helm but I can just imagine what grand kids are going to do with a tempting joystick!!!!
__________________
Peter Cronk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2006, 12:14   #236
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hawaii
Boat: Still Looking
Posts: 61
[quote=Peter Cronk][quote=stevem4u]

"good story on the lagoon site by Indigo Moon."

I could not find the above but would like to read about it? I too have ordered the soft windscreen, also the Ray Marine's electronic "C" pack which includes the wireless autopilot and repeater. I keep hearing about the need for ‘redundancy’ is this over kill? I understand that I have almost till they start to put it together to delete any options I chose, or add (at the new higher prices) other ones.
__________________
stevem4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2006, 15:10   #237
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 23
[quote=stevem4u][quote=Peter Cronk]
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevem4u

"good story on the lagoon site by Indigo Moon."

I could not find the above but would like to read about it? I too have ordered the soft windscreen, also the Ray Marine's electronic "C" pack which includes the wireless autopilot and repeater. I keep hearing about the need for ‘redundancy’ is this over kill? I understand that I have almost till they start to put it together to delete any options I chose, or add (at the new higher prices) other ones.
Sorry Steve. Went back to find the link and they have removed the story. Is the trip report on their sail from Ft. Lauderdale to the BVI. Is a really good read and is a must for everyone. Especially on watch keeping. Need to contact them and ask for the story.

I orded the 'B' pack only because I am cheap and cannot stand paying double and more for something I can do myself. I knew the boat was a way off and wanted the latest in gadgets rather than what Lagood says. Is a pain to do the installation but once I do it myself I will know it in detail and will be that much wiser it fix future problems. I was planning to spend a few months doing fitout and famil sailes before taking off.

I agree on the redundancy but would rather purchase the items I need and install them than getting Lagoon to put in. I thought the 'c' pack was fairly expensive but there is the cost of installation that I did not consider. If I had to pay for this I guess it would come out similar.
__________________
Peter Cronk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2006, 15:14   #238
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 23
[quote=stevem4u][quote=Peter Cronk]
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevem4u

"good story on the lagoon site by Indigo Moon."

I could not find the above but would like to read about it? I too have ordered the soft windscreen, also the Ray Marine's electronic "C" pack which includes the wireless autopilot and repeater. I keep hearing about the need for ‘redundancy’ is this over kill? I understand that I have almost till they start to put it together to delete any options I chose, or add (at the new higher prices) other ones.
Ah did find - http://www.indigomoon.us/triplog/tr010.html

Is a really good read.
__________________
Peter Cronk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2006, 17:11   #239
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Right now, Australia
Boat: Lagoon 420
Posts: 587
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Cronk
I orded the 'B' pack only because I am cheap and cannot stand paying double and more for something I can do myself. I knew the boat was a way off and wanted the latest in gadgets rather than what Lagoon says. Is a pain to do the installation but once I do it myself I will know it in detail and will be that much wiser it fix future problems.
Same deal for us. When I do fit out I want to put latest chartplotter at the helm and intend to use a laptop inside. Furthermore I am aiming to install a wireless serial link so that I can use the laptop from by cabin if I should so choose. Looks like this can be done with the Raymarine hub and some bits and pieces you can order online.

I didn't order joystick. I think the L420 comes with an autopilot control inside but I'm not sure. Either way, for me the joystick is a gimmick I don't need. (NOTE - I wanted it, but I realized I didn't need it. My wife has conditioned this kind of thinking into me)
__________________
ess105 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-09-2006, 17:50   #240
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by ess105
Same deal for us. When I do fit out I want to put latest chartplotter at the helm and intend to use a laptop inside. Furthermore I am aiming to install a wireless serial link so that I can use the laptop from by cabin if I should so choose. Looks like this can be done with the Raymarine hub and some bits and pieces you can order online.

I didn't order joystick. I think the L420 comes with an autopilot control inside but I'm not sure. Either way, for me the joystick is a gimmick I don't need. (NOTE - I wanted it, but I realized I didn't need it. My wife has conditioned this kind of thinking into me)
Any info you have I would appreciate. ie on the controler etc. also what chart plotters you find. I have been watching the E120 and price seems to be coming down some. I am hoping some more yet by the time boat gets here in Feb or whenever?? I am also happy to share what we have found on our bits and pieces.
__________________

__________________
Peter Cronk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
furling main sail mast into normal main usage? andreavanduyn General Sailing Forum 9 20-02-2009 09:52
furling main sail mast into normal main usage? andreavanduyn General Sailing Forum 1 10-02-2009 09:06
do I need a ring main? fjweaver Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 0 02-07-2008 05:24
Outremer electric drive comparison test henryv Multihull Sailboats 1 13-07-2007 11:55



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:45.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.