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Old 08-04-2014, 03:26   #16
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Re: Dreams, time and a son

Hey atoll,

I'm glad it is working out so well for your kids.

And yet, today, if it were I, and I could offer my 9 yr. old son the opportunities both of cruising and of schooling in different countries, my choice would be for that. With re-entry at the college level, where much of the baloney is limited, and the playing field is level, and useful contacts yet to be made.

Ann
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Old 08-04-2014, 03:33   #17
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Re: Dreams, time and a son

Agreed Ann. And I'd add that there's nothing natural or healthy about doing anything with a group of 30 peers your age and education level. When my children entered the workforce (each during their 16th year) they were fully able to interact with people of all ages. Not so their peers whom they now manage. They cannot deal with reality.
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Old 08-04-2014, 03:40   #18
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Re: Dreams, time and a son

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Hey atoll,

I'm glad it is working out so well for your kids.

And yet, today, if it were I, and I could offer my 9 yr. old son the opportunities both of cruising and of schooling in different countries, my choice would be for that. With re-entry at the college level, where much of the baloney is limited, and the playing field is level, and useful contacts yet to be made.

Ann
hi ann
i have many friends who grew up on boats,some of them in their mid-late 40's now.
and the common personality trait is that they all feel like outsiders looking in,and all have problems adjusting to conventional life.

i am not saying do not go cruising with your kids,just that, they ,the child, would benefit from it more after the age of 16,and before the age of 9-10.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:19   #19
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Re: Dreams, time and a son

First of all, thank you very much all of you for the feedback. All posts are read together with my wife and each one give us an interesting point of view......and some insecurity from the other side as i can see many different opinions from a lot of experienced people.
I know the decision is only ours, at the end.......but it's such a difficult one because it involves so many changements at the same time, even a big expense of cash thinking about the cat, that......dunno. I am used to big changements, but i used to be alone or with my wife; now this one affects soo deeply my small kid and i feel surprised even about how this makes me unsecure about the steps that have to be done, me that i used to change country and friends as simply as going for a weekend.

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So you feel guilty for wanting giving him a healthier (both physically and mentally) life, and taking him out of crazy society, peers pressure, and surrounding idiocy??? Do you REALLY think that ipads and fecesbook page and following peers discussing latest media gods will be better for him, than a huge, real, amazing world full of amazing things?
But this is exactly what i think that at the end matters, or shouldn't be that? Of course looks like it should, but would that be enought to answer to my kid if one day will ask me why he doesen't have a "normal" life as others have? This is, at the end, THE question. I am basically scared about the eventuality of seeing him sad, or just melancholic of what he left behind, or even as Atoll says having one days difficulties to adjust to conventional life.

Again thanx to each one of you for participating to my existential indecision!
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Old 08-04-2014, 19:35   #20
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Re: Dreams, time and a son

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but would that be enought to answer to my kid if one day will ask me why he doesen't have a "normal" life as others have? This is, at the end, THE question. I am basically scared about the eventuality of seeing him sad,
That made me sad. If you think anything "Normal" makes it good or better...we're in different worlds. I can't stand people who want to be "normal". There is no such thing really, it's a fearful societal aversion to risk, and nothing...NOTHING...worthwhile is without risk.
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Old 08-04-2014, 20:18   #21
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Re: Dreams, time and a son

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That made me sad. If you think anything "Normal" makes it good or better...we're in different worlds. I can't stand people who want to be "normal". There is no such thing really, it's a fearful societal aversion to risk, and nothing...NOTHING...worthwhile is without risk.
i think you might be missing the point and looking at this from an adults point of view.

the point i was trying to make is that it is essential to a childs developement,to have a peer group,and be accepted by that peer group,this they learn in formative years by play,and early teens as part of a group.

take that away from a child and it is something that can never be substituted,by any amount of home schooling,or tempory contact with other kids,they will have stunted development,resulting in an inability to relate to people on the same level in later life.

sorry corto,i am not trying to be negative, and you must definitely take your child sailing,but just be aware that your child will be molded by what is around them,if you can find some balance where by the child has a chance to form lifelong friendships,then you are doing something right,if however they have no friends that they are able to bond with then you need to reasses your situation
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Old 08-04-2014, 20:36   #22
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Re: Dreams, Time and a Son

CortoMaltese,

You cannot protect your son from feeling sad, sometime. It happens to us all--to feel sadness or loss; the goal is not possible to achieve.

On another thread, about a CF member and his family who were recently rescued off Mexico, there were some links posted (sorry, I don't know how to do it): one to a New York times article about whether it is good parenting to take very young children cruising (way younger than your son), another to an Atlantic Monthly article about The Over-Protected Kid, quite a long and thoughtful one; and another, a short article by a cruising child's mother about her daughter's life. Perhaps reading them would give you more outside input to inform your family's decision.

Reading those articles got me thinking about "who we are", what kids learn about themselves relative to their upbringing. In that perspective, I, who was taught that I was different, that my family had different opinions than the usual ones--it's not at all amazing that I went on to do things outside the norm. Perhaps it was inevitable.

I don't think it's cruising, per se, that leads to that sense of being outside a culture, but perhaps more that we have been taught early that there are alternatives. What better way to teach than by example?! Think about the benefits and costs of feeling comfortable being different.

Finally, a note about decision making: we make them. If they don't work out, we are free to make another, different one. No way we can know for certain beforehand the outcomes: we only discover them!

I hope your joint decision works well for you.

Ann
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Old 08-04-2014, 20:44   #23
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Re: Dreams, Time and a Son

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post



I don't think it's cruising, per se, that leads to that sense of being outside a culture, but perhaps more that we have been taught early that there are alternatives. What better way to teach than by example?!

I was raised without a TV. My husband was raised as an ex-pat in two different countries in Europe until he was a young a teenager. Neither of us believe that this is what left up with any of our hang ups, as we have very different hang ups than our siblings.

Warning: the following poem was linked, instead of copied, due to language that would likely be censored.
This Be The Verse by Philip Larkin : The Poetry Foundation
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Old 08-04-2014, 21:17   #24
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Re: Dreams, time and a son

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take that away from a child and it is something that can never be substituted,by any amount of home schooling,or tempory contact with other kids,they will have stunted development,resulting in an inability to relate to people on the same level in later life.
This is an opinion, and a wrong one. When my kids were still in school (home schooled their whole life) I had lists of studies, now I don't care enough to go find them. But the idea that kids should be grouped with people their age and education level is silly and damaging. Think about it: When did we start this practice? Maybe 100 years ago? Until then we integrated them into society and they interacted with people of all ages and education levels. Is society a nicer place today? Hmmmm

Atoll, I like your sailing stuff but you're dead wrong here. I'm sorry you were the exception, yours isn't the norm at all.

I'll leave this topic as I've said my piece, and to the OP: Follow your heart. I suspect you've really already decided. It's not the end of the world, he will be fine at home in his peer group. He'll never know what he missed frankly by not going.
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Old 08-04-2014, 21:35   #25
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Re: Dreams, time and a son

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hi ann
i have many friends who grew up on boats,some of them in their mid-late 40's now.
and the common personality trait is that they all feel like outsiders looking in,and all have problems adjusting to conventional life.

i am not saying do not go cruising with your kids,just that, they ,the child, would benefit from it more after the age of 16,and before the age of 9-10.
Very well said.......it is amazing the things we tell ourselves, to rationalize how it is better because its what we want to do. Everyone knows the proper responsible answer. We just choose to ignore that because we don't like the answer. My opinion is children from birth to 8 or 9 can handle the lifestyle. From 9ish on is detrimental. My big point when I here these sorts of things is, and I am not implying the OP falls into this category, is the parent has had it with life, society, being normal and on and on and wants to escape and run to the sea. Usually young adults, because they have young kids, want to take what little money they have go live on a boat with next to no income, too lazy to earn a living, expect to have the easy life at sea.......and brings there child with them. Not fare to the child and not responsible, most of the time. Buck up, put your time in, provide for the family, do the best you can to raise them and give them a good start in life......then go play and conquer mountains and sail around the world. You will have more money for the boat and kitty and enjoy yourself so much more. Patience is key.
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Old 08-04-2014, 21:45   #26
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Re: Dreams, Time and a Son

The best age is when the kids are useful and can do watches. This is a win-win situation. The kid feels an incredible satisfaction from doing his/her part in taking a yacht across an ocean and the parents can share the workload better on the long passages.

If they are too young (<5?) they will barely remember much and they are so so much work. Once they are in their mid-teens, they have their peers and it becomes more difficult, but not impossible.

So I say pretty much the opposite of Atoll - take them when they are capable of standing a watch (about 8 or 10 depending on the kid) for as long as is reasonably possible (about 13 to 16).

I speak as a kid raised on 3 oceans and as a father who showed his son a couple of oceans. And as an older brother who spent years doing "baby watches" ie. caring for my toddler sister at sea between real watches.
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Old 08-04-2014, 22:08   #27
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Re: Dreams, time and a son

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Buck up, put your time in, provide for the family, do the best you can to raise them and give them a good start in life...
If I wanted to teach my children they should be trapped by society's norms I would get a 9-5 job, send my kids to a nice suburban school and take them to Red Lobster every Friday night.

But I want to raise smart, creative, curious, fit and healthy children so I put them on a boat and set off for foreign lands. I try to intoduce a little responsibility and hardship into their lives for good measure.

The 9-5 option is for the meeker, milder folk who can't "buck up" and be real men and women who live their dreams and lead by example.

Thank goodness the two countries spent most of my life in (Australia and the good ole USA) who were forged by men and women who were brave enough to pick up their families and go and look for better lives.
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Old 08-04-2014, 22:40   #28
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Re: Dreams, Time and a Son

You said it. I wish I could have did the same for my children. They do well but are following the American Dream. I tell them to be careful that it may turn in to a nightmare.
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Old 08-04-2014, 23:02   #29
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Re: Dreams, Time and a Son

9-10-11.....heck that is the Perfect time!
They are old enough to enjoy and participate but not to old to want to get away from their parents.

We left for 4yrs when our two kids were 9 and 10 and they both had a great time, we all became closer.

There are plenty of kid boats out there...get moving before another 5yrs goes by and its too late.

I'm struck by the "it will harm them thinking" of how the Founding Fathers and Early Americans lived...and it honestly makes me laugh that some would think taking a kid crusing would harm them, but hey...we all have our opinions.
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Old 09-04-2014, 00:35   #30
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Dreams, Time and a Son

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If I wanted to teach my children they should be trapped by society's norms I would get a 9-5 job, send my kids to a nice suburban school and take them to Red Lobster every Friday night.

But I want to raise smart, creative, curious, fit and healthy children so I put them on a boat and set off for foreign lands. I try to intoduce a little responsibility and hardship into their lives for good measure.

The 9-5 option is for the meeker, milder folk who can't "buck up" and be real men and women who live their dreams and lead by example.

Thank goodness the two countries spent most of my life in (Australia and the good ole USA) who were forged by men and women who were brave enough to pick up their families and go and look for better lives.
I enjoyed your web site Dennis. I see you have the youngest child with you on your trips and your two teenage daughters live in the city. Sort of contradicts your opening sentence or did I get that wrong?
http://svseachange.com/?page_id=25
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