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Old 27-04-2011, 09:31   #16
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Re: Drawbacks of Wharram Tiki or Pahi for Extended S. Pacific Cruising

Although I love the Tiki's and think they are really cool boats that meet the needs of a lot of home builders. The downside of Wharram designs are the fact that 1) most are home built and some are poorly built giving them a reputation as a "hippie boat". 2) The market for them is rather small, and as a result, selling one takes longer when you need to. 3) Wharram buyer's are usually more price sensitive than those looking for a production boat.

These are broad generalizations and not meant to offend any Wharram owners.
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Old 27-04-2011, 10:19   #17
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Re: Drawbacks of Wharram Tiki or Pahi for Extended S. Pacific Cruising

I've already mentioned the downsides of Wharrams. Your primary focus on large water toys, more than comfort or windward ability, is why I didn't mention Searunners. You could put windsurfers on the lifelines, but not down below in the amas. We do have room for SCUBA gear & spear guns, however. Also, if you found a 40'er in the WEST system, with LP paint, in ready to go condition... it would probably cost more.

Wharrams can have hinged steps between the hulls in the back. With these lowered in the water, you can walk aboard, even with SCUBA gear or a board in your hands. They make good specialized dive platforms.

As for rigs, I'd still go with a cutter. It is easy to raise the sails except the last bit, and that is what winches are for. You can have clutches hold the halyards, and one winch for all of them.

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Old 27-04-2011, 11:58   #18
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Advantages of a standard cat

In addition to the other posts please note that on most Wharrams there is absolutely no shade or protection from the weather. Once, we were becalmed offshore and the sea was like glass. Nobody was in a hurry so we had a party right there, swimming, fishing, rock and roll, boat drinks and hanging out under the bimini. It was a great time and one of my fondest memories of (not) sailing. You want this.
The main advantage of standard cats are much more space per foot of length mainly due to the salons but also in the hulls. Most new sailors when comparing multis to monos or other unique designs such as Wharrams only compare the length. The true comparison is the living space. A 40 foot cat will have about as much space as a 55 to 60 foot mono MOL. But not a Wharram. Most cats provide sun and weather protection by having a bimini and possibly a dodger. It's not available on a Catana but just imagine sailing in inclemant weather with a protected helm. Sugar scoops, dingy davits, lines running to the helm, electric winches, ease of sailing, easier resale, daggerboards, pointing ability, speed, fully battened mainsails with booms, no wood rot, the list goes on and on. Some Wharrams may have a few of these features but I've never seen one with all of them but a lot of standard cats will have most or all of these features. The only thing Wharram has going for it is low price and at that they are hard to beat. BOB
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Old 27-04-2011, 18:44   #19
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Re: Under $250,000

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Originally Posted by Arikauai View Post
Thanks for the lead that's a nice boat; I'm a fan of Catanas.

My fundamental question is this: What specific trait of the Wharrams prevent you (And others on this forum) from purchasing one? What do people dislike so much that they will spend tens of thousands, if not more, on a different boat?
For us, living aboard full-time would be too much like camping. IMO fun for a while, but would get tiresome long-term.

We met a family of 4 living on a fairly small Wharram, and they pretty much were camping, at least during the day - living under a tarpaulin for shelter and shade. The weather wasn't great either.

They seemed to be enjoying life though.
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Old 27-04-2011, 19:28   #20
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pirate Re: Drawbacks of Wharram Tiki or Pahi for Extended S. Pacific Cruising

With an Ariki or 42ft Tiki you can have an aerodynamic fold down dodger.... or you could fit a custom centre pod.... but the Wharrams appeal to many is the open deck space available...
This is NOT a boat for the average guy coming into sailing... its for the guy into nature and simple living and its marketed as such...
You basically have two hulls into which you can fit a heads/shower in each, a huge galley and large double cabin on one side and a saloon/nav area and another huge double.... tons of storage..
If you have the centre pod you can set up a sea berth and watchkeepers galley with your nav intruments.... with the temp dodger you can still have a fair weather berth and 'Watchkeepers galley in a box'...
As for build quality... yes... many are home builds... the bigger ones usually by competent tradesmen... also you'll find there are professional builders around the world who'll build to order..
True its not for everyone... but name a boat that is... I know there's many I would not buy personally had I the money... though I will deliver them
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Old 27-04-2011, 19:50   #21
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Re: Drawbacks of Wharram Tiki or Pahi for Extended S. Pacific Cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
With an Ariki or 42ft Tiki you can have an aerodynamic fold down dodger.... or you could fit a custom centre pod.... but the Wharrams appeal to many is the open deck space available...
This is NOT a boat for the average guy coming into sailing... its for the guy into nature and simple living and its marketed as such...
You basically have two hulls into which you can fit a heads/shower in each, a huge galley and large double cabin on one side and a saloon/nav area and another huge double.... tons of storage..
If you have the centre pod you can set up a sea berth and watchkeepers galley with your nav intruments.... with the temp dodger you can still have a fair weather berth and 'Watchkeepers galley in a box'...
As for build quality... yes... many are home builds... the bigger ones usually by competent tradesmen... also you'll find there are professional builders around the world who'll build to order..
True its not for everyone... but name a boat that is... I know there's many I would not buy personally had I the money... though I will deliver them
The open deck definitely is a unique attribute, especially if I can get more LOA, by going the Wharram route (Less $$$). I have several mental sketches of a robust dodger or permanent enclosed saloon that I would add.

I also really like the large swim platform; It looks like it would be a great place to hang out and load boards from the water. I will be going in and out of the water frequently. Why don't other builders incorporate this feature?
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Old 27-04-2011, 19:51   #22
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Re: Drawbacks of Wharram Tiki or Pahi for Extended S. Pacific Cruising

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
With an Ariki or 42ft Tiki you can have an aerodynamic fold down dodger.... or you could fit a custom centre pod.... but the Wharrams appeal to many is the open deck space available...
This is NOT a boat for the average guy coming into sailing... its for the guy into nature and simple living and its marketed as such...
You basically have two hulls into which you can fit a heads/shower in each, a huge galley and large double cabin on one side and a saloon/nav area and another huge double.... tons of storage..
If you have the centre pod you can set up a sea berth and watchkeepers galley with your nav intruments.... with the temp dodger you can still have a fair weather berth and 'Watchkeepers galley in a box'...
As for build quality... yes... many are home builds... the bigger ones usually by competent tradesmen... also you'll find there are professional builders around the world who'll build to order..
True its not for everyone... but name a boat that is... I know there's many I would not buy personally had I the money... though I will deliver them

All very good points Phil... I might add, that while some of the worst boats out there are home built, SO are the very best of them! IF one knows what their doing, has built boats before, and doesn't need or expect a profit...

You just have to find a cherry!

M.
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Old 27-04-2011, 19:52   #23
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Re: Advantages of a standard cat

Sandcrab, those are some good things to consider...
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Old 28-04-2011, 08:25   #24
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Re: Drawbacks of Wharram Tiki or Pahi for Extended S. Pacific Cruising

The lack of a bridgedeck alspo makes her easier to go to weather. Over the yeards I have begun to find the open bridgedeck more appealling. A large bimini could be build with a fold down dodger.......i2f
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Old 28-04-2011, 08:44   #25
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Re: Drawbacks of Wharram Tiki or Pahi for Extended S. Pacific Cruising

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Originally Posted by Arikauai View Post
The open deck definitely is a unique attribute, especially if I can get more LOA, by going the Wharram route (Less $$$). I have several mental sketches of a robust dodger or permanent enclosed saloon that I would add.

I also really like the large swim platform; It looks like it would be a great place to hang out and load boards from the water. I will be going in and out of the water frequently. Why don't other builders incorporate this feature?
I'm still digging for info on Wharrams, but I have seen several comments about how low windage is one of the core concepts of Wharrams. Adding a large deck saloon goes against his design philosophy. Yes, I do know that many Wharrams come with deck saloons but they seem to be much smaller than modern production cats.

I've been looking into Wharram cats for the very same reasons, using it as platform for playing, surfing, kiteboarding etc, I like the simplicity of them. Less gadgets = less to go wrong = less to worry about = more time/money to play.
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Old 28-04-2011, 09:38   #26
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Re: Drawbacks of Wharram Tiki or Pahi for Extended S. Pacific Cruising

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This is my first post!

I'm looking for a 40' to 50'+ catamaran to cruise around the tropical Pacific on an extended surfing/ kiteboarding trip. I need a boat that can fit these long toys IN the hull. My max budget is $250,000. I'm in my thirties and my "Admiral" is a great camper. I don't want a bunch of high tech, difficult to repair systems. My focus will be on finding good waves and enjoying the outdoors.

Without giving a tedious summary of my comparisons among various catamaran designs and manufacturers, my question to all you more experienced sailors is this:

Why wouldn't you buy a Wharram Tiki or Pahi?

Thanks for your opinions in advance.
I would think a Wharram would be ideal for your purposes. You are young, unimpressed with high tech doodads and your wife is a trooper. Not only can you store your toys below but the large deck area would be usefull for rigging kites. Like you, most Wharram owners have a minimalist bent and so avoid loading their boats with unnecesary systems. For tropical cruising you don't need a big bridgedeck saloon, but a small pod would be nice for watchkeeping and most Wharrams have those these days. Easy enough to set up a large bimini at anchor or in port. By the way, you may find that a Wharram, with all your stuff stored below, goes to windward as well as a more modern design with all that crap strapped to the lifelines because the hulls are too cluttered with staterooms and heads.

Why didn't I buy a Wharram? Not sure. Originally it was my plan to get a Wharram or a Brown Searunner. I have lived aboard for over 30 years and planned to live aboard the next boat for at least the next 20, so a boat with a large bridgdeck saloon had a lot of appeal. For a several year cruise in the Pacific I would have leaned toward a Wharram but for long term liveaboard in temperate lattitudes as well as tropical a Wharram didn't fit our needs as well.

Mike
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Old 28-04-2011, 09:47   #27
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Re: Drawbacks of Wharram Tiki or Pahi for Extended S. Pacific Cruising

This surf charter 2001 custom 70' power catamaran is for sale for $225,000: 2001 Custom Power Catamaran Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Why?

I'm running across many power boats that cost less, sometimes quite a bit less, than sail boats of equal length and age. I would think the power boats, with their steel or aluminum hulls, large flybridges/ upper decks, and more equipment would be more.
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Old 28-04-2011, 09:48   #28
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pirate Re: Drawbacks of Wharram Tiki or Pahi for Extended S. Pacific Cruising

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Originally Posted by Artif View Post
I'm still digging for info on Wharrams, but I have seen several comments about how low windage is one of the core concepts of Wharrams. Adding a large deck saloon goes against his design philosophy. Yes, I do know that many Wharrams come with deck saloons but they seem to be much smaller than modern production cats.

I've been looking into Wharram cats for the very same reasons, using it as platform for playing, surfing, kiteboarding etc, I like the simplicity of them. Less gadgets = less to go wrong = less to worry about = more time/money to play.
James Wharram Designs - build your own catamaran boat
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Old 28-04-2011, 09:52   #29
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Re: Drawbacks of Wharram Tiki or Pahi for Extended S. Pacific Cruising

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Originally Posted by mikereed100 View Post
I would think a Wharram would be ideal for your purposes. You are young, unimpressed with high tech doodads and your wife is a trooper. Not only can you store your toys below but the large deck area would be usefull for rigging kites. Like you, most Wharram owners have a minimalist bent and so avoid loading their boats with unnecesary systems. For tropical cruising you don't need a big bridgedeck saloon, but a small pod would be nice for watchkeeping and most Wharrams have those these days. Easy enough to set up a large bimini at anchor or in port. By the way, you may find that a Wharram, with all your stuff stored below, goes to windward as well as a more modern design with all that crap strapped to the lifelines because the hulls are too cluttered with staterooms and heads.

Why didn't I buy a Wharram? Not sure. Originally it was my plan to get a Wharram or a Brown Searunner. I have lived aboard for over 30 years and planned to live aboard the next boat for at least the next 20, so a boat with a large bridgdeck saloon had a lot of appeal. For a several year cruise in the Pacific I would have leaned toward a Wharram but for long term liveaboard in temperate lattitudes as well as tropical a Wharram didn't fit our needs as well.

Mike

That's what I was thinking.
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Old 28-04-2011, 10:03   #30
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Re: Drawbacks of Wharram Tiki or Pahi for Extended S. Pacific Cruising

Since nobody has asked the question that first popped into my mind, I will. Why do you NEED to store the boards inside? I would think that with a little care, you could design sturdy covers that would protect the boards from UV, and could store on deck of a smaller wharram or such. Much cheaper to buy and maintain than a much larger boat.

Chris
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