Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-05-2012, 09:49   #31
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,770
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Dragging the chain

first is rig whistling, then comes THUMP THUMP THUMP...BUMP

followed by loud cursing and rapid movements from sleep riddled souls.
__________________

zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 13:49   #32
Senior Cruiser
 
mikereed100's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Santa Barbara
Boat: 46' custom cat
Posts: 1,572
Images: 2
Re: Dragging the chain

My favorite anchor alarm is to toss my lead-line over the transom, then fasten the bitter end to a pot and set it on a table. I may not hear the cheefull chirping of a GPS alarm, but a pot slamming around the cockpit will have me out of my bunk before my eyes are open. The downside is that it works just as well for wind shifts.
__________________

__________________
Mike

www.sailblogs.com/member/rumdoxy

Come to the dark side. We have cookies.
mikereed100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 15:35   #33
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,084
Re: Dragging the chain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Dunno what to say - get a decent anchor and learn to use it.
Okay - another way to instil confidence is to use the TRACK function on a plotter. Start the track once you think you are anchored and bring the magnification right up and watch over the next few hours how you describe a nice little zig zag back and forth, you can really get confident in your set even though you and other boats around you are moving side to side with wind and tide.

Indeed here are some ways to satisfy yourself you are holding

1. bearings on two or more shore based/fixed locations, eg a structure on shore and a nav light
2. use waypoint function on gps, i.e. pick a fixed location e.g. nav light and set waypoint to it and you should see little change in your distance to it (there will be some change - the boat swinging with tide etc)
3. Use TRack method above
4. Note the the lat long on your written log and check it periodically
5. Watch your depth - i.e. if you anchor in 4 metres and you are in mid tide of a two metre tidal range you shouldn't see below 3 or above 5 and you should see these extremes at a predictable time using rule of twelfths.

Does that help.

PS full reverse power on my boat is equivalent to about 40 knots of wind, not sure if other boats are similar but suspect it wouldn't be too far different (how do I know this - friend who has same boat did a load cell test on the anchor system at full reverse and also did load cell testing in varying wind strengths he has experienced.)
__________________
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 15:44   #34
Registered User
 
dirkdig's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Geelong,Australia
Boat: Lagoon 440 Pathfinder
Posts: 838
Most of the apps will call and email you when they go off.
__________________
dirkdig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 15:58   #35
Moderator Emeritus
 
hummingway's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gabriola Island & Victoria, British Columbia
Boat: Cooper 416 Honeysuckle
Posts: 6,933
Images: 5
Re: Dragging the chain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gasman View Post

I long to "drop the hook" anywhere I please, but I'm still afraid of dragging?
You can never drop the anchor anywhere you please but if you set the anchor in good holding in good weather you should be able to sleep well, though some folks claim never let their guard down. I sleep like a baby under those conditions and have learned to wake up and go back to sleep under windy conditions.

I have dragged in 20-25 knots of wind when I wasn't on good holding. I was uncomfortable with my set and rightfully so. I moved to better holding and everything was fine.

There is no magic bullet.
__________________
“We are the universe contemplating itself” - Carl Sagan

hummingway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 16:28   #36
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Dragging the chain

Big anchor plenty of chain anchor drag alarm on GPS and depth alarm on sounder as applicable.

Sleep well.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 16:32   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto area when not cruising
Boat: Bristol 45.5
Posts: 668
Re: Dragging the chain

Quote:
Originally Posted by STG View Post
That is interesting. While it is my intention to eventually go all chain (when I add a windlass) I am curious about the chafing. From what I have read, I was under the impression that about a foot of chain per length of boat is sufficient to keep the scope low enough at anchor, and reduce chafing at that end.

If you are chafing for 150 ft of chain, could that perhaps be due to the weight and the fact the chain lays on the bottom? I would think a rope rode would tend to stay off the bottom in an angle from the end of the chain to the boat? I can't imagine it dragging on the bottom a lot? Just curious.

My reasoning for going all chain is more for the light wind/current days so the boat doesn't drift as much as well as the comfort of knowing it is less likely to get cut or worn through than rope.
We have been cruising full-time for a couple of years and off-hand I cannot remember a cruising boat that did not have all chain. One reality of cruising is that you end up anchoring in places that you would have imagined in normal sailing conditions. Our worst was at Easter Island. There is a small patch of sand in the midst of volanic rock with waters around 40' deep and no protection from about 200° of the compass. Swells in the 2 to 3 foot range are the norm and boats that were there a couple of weeks after us were anchored with 12' swells. I can't imagine it. We went to Pitcairn and were not able to anchor at all (my wife went ashore while I laid off the day). You need to anchor very close to shore in Bounty Bay to find even 35' of water and there were swells from both the NE and NW, plus the swells were bouncing off the cliffs of the islands. It was chaotic, even though there was no wind at all. I was going to circumnavigate the island but I could not even manage one knot of boat speed. Before I started long distance cruising I could not have imagined anchoring in such spots.

Have a good anchor, lots of good chain (like our 3/8" because of its weight), lots of scope - all will help one sleep well. I sleep, but am able to respond to changes in the boat's motion or to sounds that seem odd. Comes with practice. I also agree with the comments about setting a track on the chartplotter after anchoring. Really gives you a good idea of where your anchor is what is happening. If you get a wind shift later you can turn the plotter back on and see how the boat and ground tackle have responded.
__________________
AiniA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 16:51   #38
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Dragging the chain

A warp will catch on something sharp and that's it. Go all chain if feasible. Otherwise try to keep the warp well off the bottom unless it is blowing like hell and the bottom is clean.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 17:06   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,172
Images: 15
Re: Dragging the chain

the OP was referring to a catamaran, and I've not seen it said yet:

Multihulls. must. lie. to. a. bridle.

Each arm of the bridle should be equal to boat beam.

There should be catenary on the anchor rode between the bridle and the main hull, or the bridle isn't working.

Reference "MULTIHULL SEAMANSHIP" by Gavin le Sueur
__________________
tamicatana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 17:37   #40
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Dragging the chain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
It just takes awhile to get come confidence in your anchor and self. I started like you, then my problem became I seldom woke up to check at all... unless the rig started whistling!
Same "problem" here. I'm at the point now where I'll sleep through anything this side of a squall.

No anchor alarms for me, because I don't want to be awakened just because the tide has shifted. Instead, I down a large glass of water right before bed just to make sure I get up at least once during the night to check on things.

Big anchor + all-chain rode + plenty of nights on the hook = great sleep.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 18:12   #41
Senior Cruiser
 
Therapy's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: W Florida
Boat: The Jon boat still, plus a 2007 SeaCat.
Posts: 6,894
Images: 4
Re: Dragging the chain

Quote:
Originally Posted by hummingway View Post


There is no magic bullet.
Yep.

I used a handheld Garmin. Batteries died before I woke up.

I used the chart plotter. My wife hears it, not me. She woke me up but then she can't return to sleep easily once awakened. Draws power.

Chart plotter on and set to 60'. Wind went from 20s to 45 min of sustained 48k (found out next day). Glad I didn't go that extra 10 feet. Slept all night.
Leeward was sharp rusty steel.
That boat was not there this night.
Just the steel.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	P4150176.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	409.6 KB
ID:	40610  
__________________
Who knows what is next.
Therapy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 18:45   #42
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 20
Re: Dragging the chain

Thank you everyone for some great tips and your knowledge. Will look forward to putting them into practice.
One thing though, does the extra chain, say 10:1 laying on the bottom actually hold you in all but light conditions or there another reason? I always thought it was for the allowance in tide.
__________________
Gasman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 18:57   #43
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: 40' Silverton Aftcabin with twin Crusaders
Posts: 1,590
Re: Dragging the chain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
And if you are unsure, use full power (astern) for a minute or two. No anchor should should ever drag at full power.
Oh I don't agree with that. I have been the anchor route, 33 & 44# Bruces on my Hunter 30 years ago. They held well until our harbors filled with ell grass.

My 40 Silverton aft cabin started with my purchase of a 55# Delta.........it slipped; upgraded to an 88# Delta..........it slipped. Gave up on the Deltas which are now in my basement and purchased an 80# Maxwell Supreme that will not be tested until some time in July.

Each settings with the Delta anchors was with scopes in excess of 5-6, the best one can do in our crowed harbors. I have an all chain rode (5/16") along with a huge windlass. EACH TIME I SET THOSE ANCHORS, I PULLED BACK WITH TWO EACH CRUSADER 454 ENGINES UP TO THE POINT WHERE I FEARED I WOULD RIP OUT THE BOAT'S DECK CLEATS.

I find there is more to anchoring than just pulling on the rode.

Foggy
__________________
foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 19:02   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vancouver
Boat: Grampion 26
Posts: 39
I didn't read them all. But I use a kellet. A weight I drop down the rode after I anchor to keep the scope lower and weight the rode down a bit when it's really tugging. My kellet line is about 30' long with about 20lbs of weight Never have dragged an anchor. But I have still had a lot of sleepless nights. It's getting better though. 26ft sailboat.
__________________
Sailing sailing sailing....
canadianllama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2012, 19:08   #45
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: 40' Silverton Aftcabin with twin Crusaders
Posts: 1,590
Re: Dragging the chain

ALL CHAIN RODES--- good, reliable but not necessarily better than a nylon rode. Many cases it depends on the bottom. Rocks, coral and similar bottoms put nylon at risk. Each has its own advantages.

Alarms are fine but having a reliable anchor I believe is the better way to go. A couple of years ago this was a hot topic. Maybe too hot.

Foggy
__________________

__________________
foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:55.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.