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Old 21-01-2008, 10:29   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxingout View Post
I will have David get in contact with you. Do you have any segments of your surfing DVDs on U-tube or any of the other video sites? I would like to check them out.
None on You Tube but I have some short trailers of my SurfNRG dvd's on my website .

Besides the surfing this trailer shows a guy in Tortola getting tossed from his inflatable onto the dinghy dock at Cane Garden Bay. Guy could of been seriously hurt (like an outboard to the head) but he escaped unscathed.

http://www.surfnrg.com/quickTime/SynergyIntro.mov

Then this other trailer includes some clips from a trip I took to the Mentawaiis onboard my buddies 62 ft Power Catamaran.

http://www.surfnrg.com/quickTime/SOLARintro.mov

Both are just short "trailers" that give you an idea of what's on the vids.

Was so cool when we had the local Katiet tribe on one of the islands paddle up in their canoes and trade rupia for dollars for goods, etc..

Enjoy!
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Old 22-01-2008, 17:03   #77
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um ok you got me
sean
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Old 23-01-2008, 01:57   #78
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um ok you got me
sean
So the willy's fall off the stupid ones.
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Old 24-01-2008, 09:32   #79
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Make up a list of risks based upon likelyhood and impact from low likelyhood/ low impact to extremely high likelyhood and immediate life threatening/catastrophic loss. A catamaran capsizing is a low likelyhood and would take much more force than turtling an equivalent mono and would be a high impact item. A monohull sinking is a low likelyhood, life threatening/catastrophic loss. Many cats can't be sunk by a single hole in the hull, so sinking is far less likely. Going overboard is a high likelyhood/ life threatening item on a monohull because when walking up to your mast you are an a tilting platform that simply letting go will put you overboard in a stiff breeze when healed over. On a cat, your 10+ ft from the edge when standing at the mast and on a level platform. From our cockpit we have swim platform behind the cockpit and wide flat decks surrounding. Should one of use fall backwards or sideways they have a long way to go before again reaching the toe rail. So going overboard on a cat is a low to moderate risk (on either boat you should take the same precautions). Loosing an engine is an extremely high likelyhood risk with a moderate to severe risk on any boat. But most cats have two engines, so loosing both at the same time is very unlikely.

Were I to put an arbitrary number on it:

Risk/Impact (1 low risk/1 low impact to 10 high risk/10 life threatening impact.

mono multi
Sinking 2/10 1/10
Overboard 7/10 3/10
Capsize/turtle 2/6 1/8
Total Engine Loss 5/8 1/8
Fire 1/10 1/10








Quote:
Originally Posted by cbac View Post
How often and what would it take to capsize one?

I only ask because my wife and I are looking for a boat and are debating Single or Multihull.


That and we sail a little ol' Hobie 14 and "capsize" frequently. It's the 14's way of cooling our jets.
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Old 24-01-2008, 10:24   #80
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Good analysis Schoonerdog ( I assume the name refers to a 'past-life' in terms of vessels). I would add that there is also a reduced risk of injuring yourself while preparing food (it is much less likely that hot food will be thrown/spilled from the stove), or that heavy items will come flying out when cupboard/locker doors are opened on the windward side of the boat. Even the use of tools for maintenance/repairs is easier and safer without significant heeling, to say nothing of doing any work/inspections at the mast truck!

Brad
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Old 24-01-2008, 10:28   #81
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Cool analysis, Schoonerdog. I'm sold already on this end.

Question:

Why is everyone on a *sail*boat so concerned with engine problems? I mean if you are transiting a drawbridge or something, it might be an issue, but I've lost engines a few times over the years and it's never been a problem.

Once, I was put out in a storm by a river current and had to sail to the next port - ok... that was annoying.

Another time, I lost my Yanmar while approaching the Cape Cod Canal. Fixed it, then continued along.

Yet another time I ran out of fuel (duh!) and sailed the rest of the way to the dock.

Engines are not a necessity in a sailboat, are they?

BTW: My comments aren't directed right at you... they are more a general question I have because so many people talk about losing engines and it being a safety factor in a cat.
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Old 24-01-2008, 11:37   #82
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Why is everyone on a *sail*boat so concerned with engine problems? I mean if you are transiting a drawbridge or something, it might be an issue, but I've lost engines a few times over the years and it's never been a problem.
Of course if you lose your engine at the right time it can be no more than a minor inconvenience. Lose it at the wrong time, it could be a big problem.
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Old 24-01-2008, 11:53   #83
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This will reveal too much in terms of my luck but I've lost an engine

1) leaving a t head with 3 to 4 knot current pushing me into the most expensive boat in the marina

2) waiting for a bridge (actually a few times waiting for a bridge) with current and wind against me and lots of boats all around

3) coming into a port with a nasty wind going straight out of the port (several times)

4) trying to get into a slip with a nasty current

5) coming into a very crowded and busy channel

6) on a sea trial of my present boat!!!

Simply put, I don't trust engines. I would venture that around 10% of the time I've left port I have something weird happen to an engine (the chesapeake is full of junk).
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Old 24-01-2008, 11:54   #84
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No, engines are not essential in a sailboat (except in the Cape Cod canal, the Panama canal etc., etc.). Of course, neither are radios, GPS, autopilots and electrical lighting. They are, however, all more than merely a 'convenience'. They do impact on safety and, in the case of auxilliary power, this is especially true in a catamaran.

Many catamarans (including most of those you will likely be considering), do not tack as easily, nor sail to windward as well as a monohull. I can tell you that it will be reassuring to have an engine ticking over if you ever have to tack into high seas and heavy winds.

Similarly, because most older cats (eg, Prouts etc.) do not sail particularly well to windward, you may find your auxilliary more than just reassuring should you ever have to claw your way off a lee shore in similar conditions. Lets face it, traversing a bar upon entering an anchorage, trying to enter and dock in a crowded marina - all of these are not merely easier, but also safer with auxilliary power at least available, should the need arise.

My life's experience (and apparently even your own) dictate that the one thing which you can count on is that your auxilliary power is apt to fail you precisely when you need it the most. Indeed, rough seas are much more likely to kick up sediment in the tanks and create fuel-flow problems than sailing in calm conditions. Yes, you can just try to stay well offshore with enough sea-room that you will not need to tack when the going gets rough. But what if there is a medical emergency on board? What if your rig fails?

One of the great benefits to the modern catamaran is the maneuverability permitted by twin engines and, yes, the safety advantages of redundancy in your auxilliary power. Twins are not essential, but then, neither are they merely a 'luxury'.

Brad
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Old 24-01-2008, 13:29   #85
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Originally Posted by schoonerdog View Post
mono multi
Sinking 2/10 1/10
Overboard 7/10 3/10
Capsize/turtle 2/6 1/8
Total Engine Loss 5/8 1/8
Fire 1/10 1/10

I have to ask ... do you moon light as a book maker? So, I can place my superbowl bet with you?
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Old 24-01-2008, 13:46   #86
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cat back to mono... unheard of?

[quote=Therapy;127090]I have heard of only one person who had a (several, many??) mono, switched to a cat and then went back to a mono.
He was a circumnavigator.
When they decided to do it again and he bought a cat (don't know which one) he had to get rid of it.
The women (wife and 2 daughters) did not like "the motion".
I spoke to him. All the other stories I have only read about.



I was going to ask about this. I have never heard of any switching back to a mono after owning a cat. anyone?
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Old 24-01-2008, 14:20   #87
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Wait a Minute!

Dave:

Congratulations on your voyages and your video. Very, very nice.

However, one gets about 2 minutes into the video before asking, "What's wrong with this picture?".

What's wrong is that the guy going forward to check the headsail -- presumably offshore and in 39 knots of wind -- isn't wearing a life jacket. Nor is he wearing a harness. Nor are there jacklines visible.

Later in the video, the guy in the cockpit is similarly unattired. Unattached to the boat.

Sorry, my friend, but this is nothing short of MADNESS. Or, overconfidence...in oneself, onesboat, or ones maker to keep him/her safe.

How do I know this?

Experience. Yes, I've done similarly stupid things. Here's a pic of me making the same run to the Canaries over 30 years ago...without any harness or preserver: Gallery :: Bill's Legacy Photos :: LicoleWT

But, I've learned a lot since then. And have heard about/read about/been involved in/with maritime disasters in which a life preserver or a harness/lifeline could have prevented disaster. And, loss of life. And, untold hundreds of thousands of dollars spent by SAR units.

Now, I hope, I've wised up. Here's a pic from last summers trip across the Gulf of Maine: Gallery :: Born Free Maine Trip 2007 :: DSC_0261c

These days, with the advent of high quality and comfortable life jackets like the Mustang 3184 shown in the pic above, IMHO there's simply no excuse for not wearing one offshore. Or for not insisting that all crewmembers wear them when on deck.

Sorry for the discordant note on an otherwise great video.

Bill
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Old 24-01-2008, 14:45   #88
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Hi bill, I really enjoyed your 2 photos. I can see that you have changed boats!! I love the before and after shots, nice. Great advice too, even though I am relatively young, I will not be embarrassed to be overly cautious and careful when I get my boat. There is not shame in preserving your own life and your crew.

Cheers
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Old 24-01-2008, 14:48   #89
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Don't forget to hang on tight to mommy's hand!

Stop, look both ways, and listen! I've told you a million times!!! Hang on tight to mommy's hand!

Not everyone wants to wear that stuff. I've made many ocean crossings, and on a boat with good lifelines (I favor solid handrails,) I don't use that stuff, unless maybe the weather is seriously frightening ie. over 50 knots, and I'm going forward to wrestle with a jib. Once I stopped going offshore in boats with gennoas, I never again felt the need to wear a lifeline. (Junk rigs just don't give you life threatening situations.) As for wearing a life jacket in really serious weather a thousand miles from nowhere, I'd rather drown quickly, thanks!

"But, I've learned a lot since then. And have heard about/read about/been involved in/with maritime disasters in which a life preserver or a harness/lifeline could have prevented disaster. And, loss of life. And, untold hundreds of thousands of dollars spent by SAR units."
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Old 24-01-2008, 15:05   #90
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"(Junk rigs just don't give you life threatening situations.)"

???

I don't know which "many oceans" you've crossed, but I can assure you that you don't need to cross an ocean to face life-threatening situations on ANY boat, junk-rigged or not.

You do not want to be in the Gulf Stream in a northerly blow. It doesn't have to reach 50 knots. Nowhere near that, to build absolutely horrendous seas.

A huge cruise ship recently took solid water on the TENTH DECK in these waters.

A well-found 54' Little Harbour with licensed, professional crew aboard went completely missing last year....no sign of anything.

Even the Chesapeake Bay off Pt. Lookout (where the Potomac joins the Bay) can be a bear in a real northerly. Square waves. Extremely violent motion.

You can be brave, and you can mock. Yes, you're a real man.

But don't expect to foist these very dangerous notions on your crew, or on others who have a "conventional" perspective.

JMHO.

Bill
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